jan
New Member
Posts: 10
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Post by jan on Dec 5, 2016 9:43:58 GMT -7
Hello guys,
I want to discuss a recent self experiment of mine to get rid of water depots in the body. On the one hand this might be very interesting for ones, who are lean and strong, and on the other hand I want to hear some thoughts about it. As I already have a low bf percentage, I looked for a way to drop a few extra pounds. My idea was to dehydrate the subcutaneous fatty tissue and basically lower the water depots of the body without emptying the glycogen stores. Triathletes do the exact opposite before a competition like an ironman and bodybuilders do some similar thing before competing on the stage.
So what did I do: - eliminated salt (NaCL) from my diet - drank a lot (>7l a day) - drank nettle tea, birch water, etc. - ate rice, cucumbers, ginger, parsley, etc.
The result: I lost 4-6 pounds weight in a short amount of time with no negative side-effects on performance (for bouldering) so far. It seems important to be on a high sugar (therefore low fat) diet while doing this to prevent the muscles from loosing glycogen.
What do you think about this method? Has anybody done this before, what were your experiences?
Best regards Jan
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Post by climber511 on Dec 5, 2016 12:09:06 GMT -7
For rapid weight loss and then performing physically - read up on Wrestlers - not the TV one but HS college and Olympic ones. They would be the first place I would look for this kind of information.
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Post by alexandra on Dec 5, 2016 15:05:35 GMT -7
could you elaborate a bit more on the routine you followed? How long did you do the 4 steps above in order to lose 6 lbs? what is your bodyweight? what was your diet before and how was it different than the "water loss" phase? and how much rice, cucumbers, ginger etc did you eat and how often? What is so good about those items specifically? I am trying to lose some weight myself, but i don't want to lose muscle and it is pretty hard to lose fat being lean and female... thanks!
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Post by MarkAnderson on Dec 5, 2016 17:55:42 GMT -7
I've never done that, but it sounds interesting. I already drink tons of water and eat plenty of sugar, so that part sounds pretty easy, haha. I probably eat to much salt/sodium though. I have strong cravings for chips and salsa when I'm dieting.
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Post by Lundy on Dec 5, 2016 21:19:02 GMT -7
I would also clarify that this isn't necessarily dehydrating yourself, as that's probably the single biggest inhibitor of high level athletic performance, and I wouldn't want folks to get the wrong idea... You need to be hydrated to crush. What I think you're doing is trying to decrease the amount of excess water you're carrying around, which I believe is usually a function of how much salt you have in you. I have also noticed that if I have a day where I eat a very excessively salty diet, I will be surprisingly heavy the next morning, but it's nothing to sweat, and if I go back to eating normally, I quickly get back down.
One thing I don't know about, though, is how much being salt deficient could impact your performance... Or, maybe more precisely, how long can you make yourself salt deficient and still perform at a high level, as I wouldn't think if you kept up a zero sodium diet for too long that you'd still be able to get the most out of your body. Or is the idea that you're getting the necessary electrolytes from those other foods which don't require your body to hold as much water?
Would be super interested to hear the perspective of someone who knows a lot more about this than I, but those are my totally amateur thoughts (except the dehydration one, which is pretty well documented...)
E
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Post by joev9 on Dec 6, 2016 7:00:56 GMT -7
I have been monitoring my sodium closely lately and it directly correlates with the ups and downs of my daily weigh ins. If I consume a lot of sodium, my weight is almost always higher the next morning. I initially noticed this because my Monday morning weigh in always seemed to be my highest, no matter how active I was over the weekend. I realized that I'm much more likely to eat whatever, and consequently more sodium, than I do during the week.
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Post by srossabi42 on Dec 6, 2016 9:44:12 GMT -7
you would definitely be in trouble if you didn't get enough sodium, but you only need about a gram a day(EDIT: maybe a bit less or more depending on how much you are sweating), just add some soy sauce to your rice and it will probably never be an issue
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Post by joev9 on Dec 6, 2016 11:22:50 GMT -7
you would definitely be in trouble if you didn't get enough sodium, but you only need about a gram a day(EDIT: maybe a bit less or more depending on how much you are sweating), just add some soy sauce to your rice and it will probably never be an issue Yeah, I have been trying to keep around 2g (2,000mg) per day, which seems to work well. When I go up to 4 or 5g per day is when I see a couple pounds extra on the scale the next day.
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Post by alexandra on Dec 6, 2016 12:06:19 GMT -7
is there sodium in all/most spices? do you also cut spices (pepper, paprika, other?) i guess I should look for a list of sodium content in spices somewhere..
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Post by joecoov on Dec 7, 2016 11:17:26 GMT -7
is there sodium in all/most spices? do you also cut spices (pepper, paprika, other?) i guess I should look for a list of sodium content in spices somewhere.. If you use the base spices and herbs like black pepper, paprika, etc. have minimal sodium. Most "seasonings" tend to have sodium added. A side note: I have a lecture given by sports dietitians on cutting weight while minimizes performance issues for Olympic wrestlers that talks about sodium restriction, increasing and decreasing certain types of fiber, etc. Let me look for it and I will post it later. -Joe
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Post by MarkAnderson on Dec 7, 2016 12:16:25 GMT -7
A side note: I have a lecture given by sports dietitians on cutting weight while minimizes performance issues for Olympic wrestlers that talks about sodium restriction, increasing and decreasing certain types of fiber, etc. Let me look for it and I will post it later. -Joe Looking forward to it!
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Post by joecoov on Dec 7, 2016 13:09:11 GMT -7
Thing I found for making weight for wrestlers: Goals with Diet Manipulation: Maritain protein stores Minimize Glycogen depletion Minimize Dehydrateion Sodium and fiber/residue reduction 3-4 days prior to weigh in 7-10 Days Out - Small energy reduction + reduceed training load
- Reduce resdidue/fiber content of diet 24-72hrs before
- Mild Restriction of salt (1000-1500mg/day)
**Only thing to remember, wrestlers rehydrate, consume sodium, and add alot of carbs prior to their competitions. Interestingly for the boulderers out there: Multiple studies have shown "dehydration on the magnitude of 2–3% (of bodyweight) has little effect on muscle strength and anaerobic power (1)." For the route climbers though: "In contrast, taken collectively, 2–3% dehydration has profound effects on the ability to maintain a high power-output as measured by muscular endurance in tasks that derive energy from anaerobic and aerobic sources.(1) " 1. www.thieme-connect.com/products/ejournals/html/10.1055/s-0030-1254177
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Post by joecoov on Dec 7, 2016 13:29:34 GMT -7
Also, in case someone was wondering, according to one paper I read fiber plays a role in the amount of fluid in the body: "Bound water, which has the potential to be eliminated, includes that in glycogen stores and also that drawn into the intestinal space due to the presence of food matter with absorptive properties, such as fibre containing foods. Dietary fibre can both slow transit time of foods through the bowel as well as draw water into the intestinal space, adding bulk to stools. Different foods possess different faecal bulking properties 48 but it is assumed that if a person reduces their habitual consumption of ‘bulking’ fibre-rich foods’, it will reduce the mass of undigested plant matter, the amount of water drawn into the intestinal space and faecal bulk, favourably lowering Body Mass. Indeed, a linear relationship exists between fibre intake and bowel cleanliness in pre colonoscopy patients 77, and the adoption of a low residue (low fibre) diet for even two days helps to cleanse the bowel 77 with seven days of less than 10g fibre per day being equally as effective as a bowel preparation formula 78 . Additionally low fibre diets result in less physiological stress and symptoms than a bowel preparation formula 78. For combat sport athletes, the ability to continue to train throughout the bowel emptying process is an important consideration." I love that I can access pretty much any journal at my job. Also, why would someone take a laxative before a fight? Sounds miserable lol.. 1. journals.humankinetics.com/doi/abs/10.1123/ijspp.2016-0211
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Post by joecoov on Dec 7, 2016 14:02:30 GMT -7
I will shut up after this, but I found an interesting study on short term low carb diets for weight loss and whether it affects performance. The study measured 16 Men and 15 Womens performance (bench press, squat, and cycling test) after they consumed their regular diet, than once again after 7 days of a diet with <50gm carb per day to see how they performed. "The principle finding of the current study was that strength and power outputs were maintained in trained men and women when switching from a habitual diet to a CRD. The maintenance in strength and power occurred despite a significant decrease in body weight(1)." Something to try next offseason? 1. www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23774282
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Post by erick on Dec 7, 2016 15:21:31 GMT -7
This whole thread is VERY interesting, I have a pretty lean body in general so my finding fat to drop is a little hard and I have usually resorted to a low carb, no sugar, high fat approach. But I still eat salty foods like salami and bacon pretty regularly so maybe I could drop some weight there. "Bound water, which has the potential to be eliminated, includes that in glycogen stores and also that drawn into the intestinal space due to the presence of food matter with absorptive properties, such as fibre containing foods. Let me see if I understand this, I am currently on a diet tapper for a bishop trip starting next week. I usually have a small breakfast (maybe an egg) then I eat a BIG salad for lunch each day (A whole head of romaine lettuce plus extra veggies and maybe a little chicken, no dressing) and usually some form of sautéd veggies for dinner with some form of lean protein. I assume this means I have a bunch of fiber in the form of Shit hanging out in my bowls since I am eating more fiber now than usual. So is this saying that if I cut the veggies out of my diet for the next week I could "flush" my intestines and loss a couple pounds?!
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