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Post by srossabi42 on Jan 6, 2017 10:23:43 GMT -7
hi ehowell
i think the moon grades are all over the place and not easy to compare to anything, i've been unable to get off the ground on v4s and flashed "v8"s. but i'm think that if you make progress on the moon board, you will find yourself climbing harder outside and on "normal" gym boulders
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Post by MarkAnderson on Jan 6, 2017 10:34:43 GMT -7
hi ehowell i think the moon grades are all over the place and not easy to compare to anything, i've been unable to get off the ground on v4s and flashed "v8"s. but i'm think that if you make progress on the moon board, you will find yourself climbing harder outside and on "normal" gym boulders That's really interesting to hear, since it seems to me one of the more compelling reasons to use a Moon Board is to climb problems with known grades. I guess it shouldn't be a surprise, boulder problems in general tend to more difficult to grade, especially on plastic.
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Post by tedwelser on Jan 6, 2017 18:49:53 GMT -7
hi ehowell i think the moon grades are all over the place and not easy to compare to anything, i've been unable to get off the ground on v4s and flashed "v8"s. but i'm think that if you make progress on the moon board, you will find yourself climbing harder outside and on "normal" gym boulders That's really interesting to hear, since it seems to me one of the more compelling reasons to use a Moon Board is to climb problems with known grades. I guess it shouldn't be a surprise, boulder problems in general tend to more difficult to grade, especially on plastic. [edit: Didn't intend to sound grumpy! I was a bit tired last night ] Ok- I need to disagree here. First, any moonboard problem that is "soft" will get a ton of comments to that end, and it will have a consensus grade lower than the rated difficulty and a bit lower than the actual difficulty. So, if you are smart about evaluating problems it is easy to see when any problem is over graded. So, generally I would say that any problem that is downgraded to X it is probably closest to X+1 on the V scale.
Second, moonboard problems are simplified and normally lack the feet necessary to make the crux moves reasonable for the grade. So, in general, moonboard problems are more difficult in terms of finger strength and pulling power given the angle, than corresponding problems on real rock. In terms of training that is great-- I love being confronted with something that demands more effort than I need to muster outdoors because it lacks the details that a practiced climber can utilize.
I have only put up 4 problems on the current system-- two that seem accurate to me, and two that are each off by a grade. The downside of the app is that you cannot change the grade you assigned after the fact, so if you put up problems on a high gravity day you cannot adjust after the fact. Regardless, I think that if you climb something that was rated as V7, was climbed by 100 people and the consensus grade is V7 it really is V7, [edit: at least for most climber sizes.]
[edit: I guess the big limitation on comparability of moon problems is the fact that, the sparse setting style means that depending on body size the only foot could be too low, or perfectly placed, or too high, etc. I think this splits some problems to be very different for different sized climbers-- this feels like some types of outdoor boulder problems-- like New River sandstone, where there could be a couple ledges for foot holds and absolutely nothing in between. ]
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Post by MarkAnderson on Jan 7, 2017 9:20:46 GMT -7
Thanks for clarifying! My Moonboard stoke has been restored. As for grading/re-grading your own problems, it sounds like the solution is to wait to add them to the app until you've climbed them a few times on different days.
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Post by arrase on Jan 8, 2017 0:07:34 GMT -7
Hey Ehowell, I've noticed the Denver Moonboard on instagram, and saw that the kickboard is approximately twice the height of the standard Moonboard, and I must admit it looks pretty sweet to "step up" to the problem instead of lifting of the mat. I was wondering though if you have any thoughts on how this affects the grade, if it does at all? As you see from the picture, the starting footholds are still in the correct height, just more room underneath.
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Post by MarkAnderson on Jan 8, 2017 8:38:46 GMT -7
That's odd. One thing it does is make every fall that much farther, and so exponentially more dangerous (impact velocity increases linearly with height of fall, but impact energy increases exponentially with height of fall since Kinetic Energy = 1/2mv^2). I guess commercial gyms just can't get over their obsession with dangerously tall bouldering walls, haha. I assume they did that to match the height of the adjacent kick plate?
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Post by scojo on Jan 8, 2017 9:21:46 GMT -7
1/2mv^2=mgh, so your energy will be linear with height
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Post by MarkAnderson on Jan 8, 2017 12:03:31 GMT -7
You're right, I was assuming v increases linearly, but it actually =sqrt(gh)
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Post by arrase on Jan 8, 2017 12:14:27 GMT -7
Yeah, I would guess the other kickboard is the reason aswell, but I would think it would be somewhat easier aswell. Or maybe it's just me and my fat, lazy ass that thinks lifting up from a sitstart is a.. ..challenge.
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Post by tedwelser on Jan 8, 2017 20:38:27 GMT -7
Hey Ehowell, I've noticed the Denver Moonboard on instagram, and saw that the kickboard is approximately twice the height of the standard Moonboard, and I must admit it looks pretty sweet to "step up" to the problem instead of lifting of the mat. I was wondering though if you have any thoughts on how this affects the grade, if it does at all? I think it will only alter a limited number of problems. Things with super low undercling starts, like those that start matched on G2 will probably feel harder to get established on. Things with traverses along the 5 row will feel a little less butt draggy? In general, I would just not want to be extra high up when falling off the top.
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kader
New Member
Posts: 37
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Post by kader on Jan 9, 2017 2:41:04 GMT -7
maybe try to find more fingery problems with less extreme moves, like Applesauce? or The Owl? these seem to be more about the fingers and less about the big moves? dunno for sure-- have not attempted the owl. So moonboarded today and tried your suggestion: I flashed applesauce 7b I tried the owl and it was perfect. Need to work on it a bit more I tried crime and punishment 7b but could not RP it. I think i should be able to RP it next time Thanks for the suggestions!
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Post by ehowell on Jan 9, 2017 7:44:15 GMT -7
Hey Ehowell, I've noticed the Denver Moonboard on instagram, and saw that the kickboard is approximately twice the height of the standard Moonboard, and I must admit it looks pretty sweet to "step up" to the problem instead of lifting of the mat. I was wondering though if you have any thoughts on how this affects the grade, if it does at all? Hey arrase, I have no comment, as this is the only Moon Board I've used (and I've hardly even used this one). My guess is that it maybe doesn't matter, unless some starts are super scrunchy. For me it's the same as the campus board -- I usually don't start on the first rung because it feels so awkwardly low. Ideally it's not any easier though.
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Post by srossabi42 on Jan 9, 2017 10:26:17 GMT -7
hi tedwelser, do you have any trouble with the app not updating consensus grades? i see when people repeat problems they tend to give appropriate grades, but even with their input my app tends to display the given grade as the consensus grade even when this is not the case
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Post by tedwelser on Jan 11, 2017 17:46:04 GMT -7
hi tedwelser, do you have any trouble with the app not updating consensus grades? i see when people repeat problems they tend to give appropriate grades, but even with their input my app tends to display the given grade as the consensus grade even when this is not the case That app is the most hit or miss and difficult to use app I have ever tried to use. I think it shows the assigned grade unless you look at the comments and then you get the consensus. I think you have to dig a bit to get a good perspective on each problem, and it takes some time. I find that I am happiest when I browse through problems on the couch, and make lists of things to try. When I get to the board I just cycle through my lists trying things till I find one that captures my imagination. There are so many problems there is no point in sticking with ones that are more than a little problematic in terms of aesthetics or relevance. Generally I try to make lists at 3 levels, each with about 10 problems and from those I can usually find a good session.
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Post by solwertkin on Jan 12, 2017 1:49:08 GMT -7
I put one of my Anaeorbic Capacity Circuit up on the site. You can find it by searching for Sol Wertkin. Love the Moonboard, building one is the best thing I've done for my climbing. I've been very consisitent for about a year and I've never had such a good base of strength and power.
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