SE plan for building upper body strength

[Chris W]

I'll be happy to give you any kid advice I can. I've taken the whole family out, ever since my first was born. This includes this fall, taking all three of the little ones and my pregnant wife out. It can be chaotic, but I think it's worth it.

If you're carrying two 30 pounders at a time, then you must be tough. Number 2 and number 3 often want to be carried at the same time, and I can barely make it 100 yards before I have to stop and put one down. I'm pretty sure all the extra kid carrying over rough terrain at the NRG is what gave me this biceps tendonosis. 

[dsm]

Thanks, Chris. Yeah, I've thrown out my back at least twice doing it and I can't sustain it long before needing the spouse's support. If only simultaneously carrying my twins translated to upper body strength for climbing! =) Anyway, hope you find a good routine. I'd be interested to hear what works for you.

[RobF]

Have a look what SBC's been doing on facebook- some pretty good functional exercises in and amongst the partner assisted stuff (which could also be classified as state of the art in its own way???)

Have reduced the running down to almost zero but still think theres many benefits from sprints (I do 5 x 50 meters / = 25 paces or reps per leg).

Bodyweight single arm or single leg stuff is a good move for anyone with an injury to consider (or someone who's a bit older). There's lower forces to deal with but similar effects.
E.g.: squatting bodyweight 2 legs = 2 x bw (bar at bodyweight + body weight itself). This is 1 x bw per leg. Pistol squats = 1x bw per leg without the spinal loading etc.

[alexandra]

I have recently started doing "Strongman" type stuff, and I find some of them pretty beneficial for shoulders. I don't know if you have access to any of the equipment, but for example: Viking sloth presses, one arm barbell press, overhead yoke carry (if you don't have yoke you could just use heavy dumbbells and walk 100 ft per set), bottoms up kettlebell press (hold the KB with he handle facing down, this works the stabilizer muscles around the shoulders a ton, go heavy for 10 reps), overhead sandbag military press, Z-presses etc.
I can send link to videos for some of those if you want to look them up (or just google the names). I found especially the one arm presses, bottoms up KB press, and overhead yoke carries to be very helpful, cause they really take care of any instabilities you have and make sure you activate your shoulders properly.

[mkane]

It sounds like you have your elbow tendinosis under control... but I wanted to mention an exercise that really helped me.

Before the recent mountain project site overhaul, there used to be an "expert advice" article by Dave Macleod on injury prevention at your work desk or with some similarly silly title. One of the exercises he mentioned was while sitting at your desk, spread your fingers and place your finger tips on the edge of the table at about shoulder width, elevate your elbows slightly (maybe 20 degrees past horizontal), and while pressing down through your fingers, extend your wrist -- effectively loading it eccentrically through wrist extension. Repeat 10 times or whatever.

Anyway, I gave it a try and it effectively "cured" my elbow issues (and helped with some wrist problems as well). Before this, I had struggled with elbow tendinosis for a couple of years and had mostly kept it under control using Julian Saunders's dodgy elbows protocol... but if I skipped a few sessions or went overboard with my climbing volume, it would flare back up. The Macleod exercise is so simple it is easy to dismiss, but it really helped me. Wish I could find the original article as it had a nice drawing to explain the exercise...

[Chris W]

Just as an update...

I've done a lot of reading in the last month and a half, successfully rehabbed my right bicep, and done a few small experiments. I'm not going to change my "climbing" training (the Rock Prodigy stuff, my ARC, HB, Power, PE and Performance phases). It's working too well and that wasn't my concern anyway.

I am going to change my SE sessions. I'm basically using Steve Bechtel's lifting plan he discusses in his Strength book. The goal of the non-climbing lifts (deadlift, single leg squat, bench press, shoulder press) is not to make me a stronger climber directly, but to make me a stronger human, which can help me keep my body healthy to handle the training to be a stronger climber.

I've experimented in the last month with his protocols on the "leg" lifts and I can report (with great relief) that I haven't gained any weight or size in my legs and that my chronic back pain is almost completely gone. I'll give it good honest go for at least a year (as long as the not-gaining-weight-in-the-legs thing continues to hold true).

[troy]

Based on your description/goals, I would say your best bet is to utilize a "strength-endurance" rep/rest resistance training plan to get your body healthy again. It sounds like you are using rep/rest and weights that are more geared towards power recruitment. Training like this year round in addition to climbing and training is too hard on your body. I've worked out a phased resistance training schedule that shifts with the different RCTM training phases. During ARC/OM phase I'm doing strength endurance as mentioned above. During strength/hangboarding phase I'm doing resistance training with rep/rest geared towards hypertrophy to increase the muscle size a bit before the power phase. During the power phase my reps/rest/weights are similar to what you described above. During the performance phase I shift back to strength-endurance. It's still a work in progress but I have an excel sheet with the exercises I'd be happy to share if you're interested.

[troy]

Also, I'm not sure what your pre-climb warmup/mobility routine is like but this is just as important. I can offer up some tips on this as well if you want, I've been researching this a lot over the past few months

[Chris W]

Jan 17, 2018 10:27:50 GMT -7 troy said:

Based on your description/goals, I would say your best bet is to utilize a "strength-endurance" rep/rest resistance training plan to get your body healthy again. It sounds like you are using rep/rest and weights that are more geared towards power recruitment. Training like this year round in addition to climbing and training is too hard on your body. I've worked out a phased resistance training schedule that shifts with the different RCTM training phases. During ARC/OM phase I'm doing strength endurance as mentioned above. During strength/hangboarding phase I'm doing resistance training with rep/rest geared towards hypertrophy to increase the muscle size a bit before the power phase. During the power phase my reps/rest/weights are similar to what you described above. During the performance phase I shift back to strength-endurance. It's still a work in progress but I have an excel sheet with the exercises I'd be happy to share if you're interested.

I'll keep a close eye on things. For the last several years, I've been doing my SE the way you mentioned above, and it hasn't worked very well for me. That's why I'm trying something new. The new plan also cuts down on the volume of work I'm doing. Instead of doing the same lifts every 3 days, I'm doing [lets call it session A] on day 3, session B on day 6, Session A on day 9, etc.. Once I hit the late power phase, I'm planning on dropping the volume even more and doing the minimum possible to maintain strength for the rest of the season. Hopefully that will keep me out of hot water. 

Good point on the warm up. This is something I'm trying to be deliberate about now as well, especially for my 04:30 wake ups and single digit temp sessions in the barn. My current (new) plan involves about 10 minutes of range of motion and mobility stuff followed by about 5 minutes of box jumps and burpees, then my ARC warm up. I hate the box jumps and burpees, because I don't want it to make me gain weight, but I'm struggling to fine something else to get me breathing hard and warm that early. I'd be interested to hear your routine for warming up. 

[troy]

As you mentioned, getting the blood flowing with at least 6 minutes of cardio is the first step. I use the elliptical at my gym but it sounds like a quick jog might be the best bet in your case. After 6 minutes on the elliptical I start doing mobility stuff. I don't know the technical term for a lot of the stuff I do (shoulder dislocates is one that comes to mind) but this video has some really great ones www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYrIMdOBHkg. This one from Gimme Kraft has some good basic ones too www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhO_PCtJR9g&list=PLcgdkwO0ukXWz5Hki6NeBsdsFeeYkmD3n&index=1 I also do "wrist rolls", since I have had issues with wrist pain from excessive/hard climbing and training. I roll each wrist ten times clockwise and counterclock wise for two sets and do two sets of ten reps of "waves" (point finger tips to the sky and towards the ground = 1 rep). This probably looks funny but it gets a decent little pump going in the forearms and then I do standard forearm/finger stretching/mobility exercises. Lastly I get the major muscle groups warmed up doing theraband exercises (I shoot for 15 reps of each) including bicep curls, behind the head tricep raises, shoulder extensions, front shoulder raises. My girlfriend usually takes a little longer then me so I'll finish off by doing some traversing to warm up the fingers while I wait for her. Another great way to warm up the fingers pre-workout or climb is a device like the Finger Master or Grip Master.

[troy]

Also, to be more specific regarding the resistance training. I would shoot for less weight, more reps and shorter rest time. (Whatever weight allows you to successfully complete 3-4 sets of 15 reps, with 1 minute of rest)

[climbnkev]

I have spent a lot of the last two years exploring supplemental strength training and have reached a conclusion that many might contest. If you want to focus on getting stronger you have to decide to let your climbing take a back seat. If you attempt to maintain a full climbing training cycle and also focus on non-specific training you will get injured.

I'm sure you have heard that 75% of your training time should be climbing. Consider wisely how you wish to spend the remaining 25%. You may feel you are "different" or special, I know I did. I decided to devote 50% of my training time to strength. Yes I did get stronger, but I didn't really climb better. I also found I was constantly battling small injuries. Just as mentioned previously regarding tennis swings, we all have a threshold for elbow flexes. Choose wisely.

My best recommendation is to focus on strength movements that maximize neurological response with the minimum time and energy requirements. Steer clear of body weight supplemental training for this reason. Choose 2 exercises you want to improve at and focus on them exclusively for 6-8 weeks. Here is a good article I found revealing:

www.climbstrong.com/less-is-more/

[dsm]

Just read Climbnkev's response and along those same lines I wanted to update that I'm about done with that rings program I mentioned I was doing.

Pros: Overall I feel very strong especially in the core and in pushing/pulling movements (prior my pushing muscles always felt lagging, and now they feel much stronger). My flexibility and shoulder stability has also markedly improved. I had an old rotator cuff injury that was limiting my ROM that is gone. Also, my body awareness (re: positioning and balance) feels acutely improved at least when I'm on the rings.

Cons: Although the rings program did not interfere with my the strength phase (at least not as far as I can tell on paper) and I was doing ~2 times a week, it definitely interfered with my power phase through performance phase. I ended up cutting back to once a week on the rings and had to take extra rest days and push climbing workouts back (which I generally hate doing). It probably tanked at least two campus board sessions for me and a few performance days and just made the season longer which wasn't awesome. I knew that might happen though, so I am now at peace with it.

Too early to tell how/if it will affect my climbing. I'm starting my next season in a week. Whether or not it has any immediate positive effect, I think it will have a good long term effect at least on my overall fitness. Plus I feel like I have valuable new skills/exercises in my SE arsenal for future use.

TLDR: a rings program is good for getting strong and learning new SEs, but if doing a rings program it will negatively interfere with your climbing unless you carefully plan for recovery time and/or cut back on something.

[Chris W]

Just an update; I've followed a basic version of Steve Bechtel's plan from his book Strength for my SE this spring season, and it's worked quite well. A few things worth noting.

1) My exercise volume and frequency has decreased. Instead of training each exercise every three days (in the base and strength phases), I ended up training each exercise every 6 or 7 days.

2) Each SE session was much shorter. 6 exercises per session (including 2 core exercises per session).

3) Was careful to lift to technical failure, not exhaustion

4) Reps were lower and weight heavier.

Right now, I'm just maintaining strength, not working on building strength. I'm two weeks into my performance phase, have cut down on my SE sessions quite a bit, and have maintained my strength with very little effort. I did include two "leg" exercises, deadlifts and a split squat. These were done not to make me a stronger climber directly, but a stronger human, to help me handle my training to become a stronger climber. It's worked; my chronic back pain (almost two decades) is almost completely gone, and my knees don't hurt when I drop down from my campus board. Just to be clear, I'm not deadlifting 400 pounds; I'm working to deadlift 125 pounds safely.

I've gotten much stronger, haven't gained any weight, and my body doesn't feel weak and fragile at this (late) stage of the season. Again, to be clear, I haven't adjusted my training to fit Bechtel's plan for strength training; I've adjusted Bechtel's strength plan to fit into my SE's for my Rock Prodigy training.

[climber511]

One of the most helpful things I have done is to forget the 7 day week and create a rotation that allows me to fit my workouts and rest periods to fit what I need. Right now I am doing a 9 day "week" and doing much better than when I was using the traditional 7 day rotation.