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Post by alexandra on May 16, 2016 9:50:57 GMT -7
I have been having a pretty bad hang boarding cycle where in the most important grips (closed crimp, semi-closed crimp, pinch) I have seen no improvement at all since workout 2 (now on my workout 7). I followed a slightly different approach this time, so if I failed on one set, I would shake out, and then complete whatever remaining time I had on that grip to make sure my TUT is the same as if I had completed the set. Then I rest 3 minutes and proceed to the next set or grip.
I also went climbing outdoors yesterday and did poorly. I couldn't even do some moves that I was able to do at other times on some projects. Now I know you will probably say it is too early in my climbing "career" to say anything, but I have been training hard for 4 months now and I really would like to be able to see some quantifiable improvement. This way, I keep being inspired and focused as well as motivated to train more and harder. In all other sports, hard training has paid off immediately (e.g my previous post on the strength gains program I followed where I saw huge gains for me, in only 10 workouts /month and a half of training, or my gymnastics routines, where when I put time in working on iron crosses, i progress on the crosses etc...). Maybe I have been lucky in that respect, but now I am getting really disappointed in myself with respect to climbing and feel like I need some ideas on how to fight it. What do people do/think about/say to themselves/change when they see no progress? Any mental cues? do you just take a deep breath and maybe some rest days and resume? or just stick to the plan and believe in the unknown? I guess for most of us that are not professional athletes, none of this really matters, but it would be nice and less disheartening if hard work paid off sooner rather than later...
Sorry for the rambling, I am having a bad day ;p
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Post by Lundy on May 16, 2016 10:07:08 GMT -7
Hi Alexandra,
Sorry to hear you're not yet seeing the results you'd like. Before I offer some thoughts up, I know you had a question on a previous thread about what weight to start this next HB cycle at. What did you end up deciding? I have some experience experimenting with different starting weights that has led to surprisingly different outcomes from my HB phase...
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Post by alexandra on May 16, 2016 10:09:37 GMT -7
i went about what I did on my 3rd HB of the previous cycle, or for some grips where I was stuck for the whole cycle, I even went with the weight of the second workout. For example, for semi crimp, I finished last cycle at baseline -5 and I started this cycle at -20. Other suggestions are super welcome!
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Post by Lundy on May 16, 2016 10:27:01 GMT -7
Thanks for the info. So I would suggest there's probably a few things going on, but of course, the only person who can figure this out for sure is you via relentless experimentation and documentation of what's working and what's not.
First, I think you probably started too close to your previous max. I have personally found that if I don't drop far enough back from my PR when starting my HB cycle, I'll basically never get back to that PR. I don't really know why, but I think it has something to do with a concept that Steve Bechtel talks about a bit regarding how much strength you can gain even though you're not working at your max. My guess is that (a) since you haven't been HBing in a while, you're body needs to readjust, and (b) that's ok, because you are still likely making significant strength gains even though you're not working near your max. As such, I've figured out I need to go back about 30-35 or so pounds from my max, and by adding 5 pounds each workout, I get back to close to my PR on my 7th or 8th workout. When I've had the discipline to do this, I almost always do a new PR. When I haven't had the discipline cause I'm feeling strong and want to keep making gains, I never PR.
The other point I would make is what I think others have said: You workout like a maniac, and there's just no way that some of that isn't taking away from your body's ability to adapt to the new strains of climbing (and, specifically, training for climbing). I'm 41, so I know results vary, but another thing I'm learning is that more rest almost always helps me. It's incredibly difficult some days to not workout, frankly, as I did very intensive double-sessions for many many years, but it's something I'm willing to sacrifice for performance.
I would also say you should look back at some of your posts here where you were genuinely stoked about how much progress you making relatively quickly, and remember that progress is almost never linear. If you've made big gains recently, you can likely expect to plateau or even get beat down a bit. That just seems to be the way the game works. However, if you're still putting in the work, you're likely getting stronger even if it's not reflected in your results. Just hang in there...
Lastly, the only mantra that has ever worked for me during tough times is to just remember to keep having fun. Obviously, everyone has a bad day, but if I get to the point where I'm tired, frustrated, struggling, etc. for a week or so, that means it's time to take a rest week, eat a shit load of ice cream and cookies, and start again the next week. It works wonders for my mental ability to struggle for seemingly miniscule gains...
Hopefully you'll find something in my ramblings useful. Hang in there, and good luck.
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Post by alexandra on May 16, 2016 10:58:25 GMT -7
Lastly, the only mantra that has ever worked for me during tough times is to just remember to keep having fun. Obviously, everyone has a bad day, but if I get to the point where I'm tired, frustrated, struggling, etc. for a week or so, that means it's time to take a rest week, eat a shit load of ice cream and cookies, and start again the next week. It works wonders for my mental ability to struggle for seemingly miniscule gains... Thanks so much for the post! I already eat ice cream all the time, proactively, so in case I have a bad day I already have ice cream stores to overcome it  My issue with not progressing is mostly on the aspect that you mentioned regarding having fun. Maybe I am the only one in this forum or maybe not, but I really don't have fun sitting for an hour in front of my hang board ;p I would honestly rather be climbing those days. And I have to drive 20 minutes from one gym to another to get a proper warmup and then a campus session, which is kind of annoying. But all of this is worth it if the main activity, i.e. climbing, is getting better. If I was training solely by means of climbing, and thus having a bunch of fun, then I wound't be so disappointed...I guess the difference between training for climbing and training for crossfit, is that the latter involves doing stuff that are similar, if not the same, as the things I am doing at crossfit and thus, even though the training is brutally hard, I enjoy the movement. For climbing, hang boarding is on the edge of being boring (I think), so it is easy to lose focus... |
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ericg
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Post by ericg on May 16, 2016 11:22:41 GMT -7
I also went climbing outdoors yesterday and did poorly. I couldn't even do some moves that I was able to do at other times on some projects. I would not worry about 1 day outdoors. There are a bunch of reasons/things that can contribute to a bad day outside, temps, humidity, not being fully recovered from climbing or non climbing workouts, other life stressors, etc. If you repeatedly cannot do moves you used to then you need to look into why. But 1 day outside is nothing in the grand scheme of things. |
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Post by jessebruni on May 16, 2016 13:00:38 GMT -7
Perspective is key.
4 months is a drop in the bucket in the grand scheme of things and the more you train the more you'll need to train in order to see continued improvement. It's kind of the catch-22 of training. What I've found that helps me is to just keep my nose to the grindstone for as long as I can and not try and think about the results. Just follow the program, don't focus too much on PR's and whether your actually getting stronger. When you reach the point that you just can't train anymore then stop for a little while. Take a week or two to just climb for fun, however long it takes to get your motivation back. A week or two off is not going to wreck your entire training cycle, especially in the grand scheme of things.
I think of it a bit like cheat days in a diet. If having a day when you don't follow the diet is what it takes to stay on the diet for the long term, then you should eat whatever you need to eat (and however much you need to each) in order to ensure that you stay on the diet long term. The long term, years, is what matters in the end. In 4 years you want to look back on this time period and not remember it because in the end it was just a blip on the radar, the last thing you want to do is to recall this story 4 years from now as "oh yeah, I tried training for a few months but got burnt out", as you proceed to try and send a V7 in the gym.
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Post by marcusyoya on Aug 25, 2016 15:36:24 GMT -7
I have never seen progress on hangboarding applicable directly to outside climbing right away. "it's like brushing your teeth" I feel super weak and pitiful when I climb outside during my strength phase. At least 2 letter grades lower than on-sight level climbs. But it all works out in the end. Endurance and Power are seen very quickly. Strength takes time to develop and months down the line I always say to myself "the holds feel bigger now!" I have also found that the biggest gains in my climbing have been finger strength, so keep at it and it will get better.
Cheers
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Post by willblack on Aug 26, 2016 6:05:27 GMT -7
What do people do/think about/say to themselves/change when they see no progress? Any mental cues? do you just take a deep breath and maybe some rest days and resume? or just stick to the plan and believe in the unknown? I guess for most of us that are not professional athletes, none of this really matters, but it would be nice and less disheartening if hard work paid off sooner rather than later... Sorry for the rambling, I am having a bad day ;p I'd agree with previous posters who say you started with too much weight. I've been hangboarding for about a year and a half, and each hb cycle I try to choose starting weights that will set me up to pr by no more than 15 lbs after 10 workouts. That way I can pretty reliably pr by 5 or maybe ten lbs each cycle. In my experience being excessively ambitious has always led to me hitting a wall early on in the cycle. Also, is the temp/humitidy of the area where you hangboard the same as your last cycle? That can make a huge difference. Finally, in regards to staying motivated, I think we all have times during periodized training when we feel like we are regressing. I always feel this way during my first couple bouldering and campus sessions after a hangboard phase, but things inevitably get better. I personally try to only compare myself to how I was climbing a year ago, as I think that this is really the minimum amount of time it takes to see actual improvement for someone who has been climbing for a while. You can either push through and continue into your power phase, having gained experience on how to change things up next time, or you could take a few weeks off and start again at a lower weight and see if that helps. Either way, you will have gained some valuable experience that will be useful in planning out your next cycle. Or, if you have the time to climb outside a lot and you find that training saps your love of climbing you might consider taking a while to just enjoy climbing. |
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My issue with not progressing is mostly on the aspect that you mentioned regarding having fun. Maybe I am the only one in this forum or maybe not, but I really don't have fun sitting for an hour in front of my hang board ;p I would honestly rather be climbing those days. And I have to drive 20 minutes from one gym to another to get a proper warmup and then a campus session, which is kind of annoying. But all of this is worth it if the main activity, i.e. climbing, is getting better. If I was training solely by means of climbing, and thus having a bunch of fun, then I wound't be so disappointed...I guess the difference between training for climbing and training for crossfit, is that the latter involves doing stuff that are similar, if not the same, as the things I am doing at crossfit and thus, even though the training is brutally hard, I enjoy the movement. For climbing, hang boarding is on the edge of being boring (I think), so it is easy to lose focus...
