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Post by Lundy on Apr 26, 2016 19:27:26 GMT -7
Hi all, I would love people's thoughts on helping me think through what makes the most sense for long-term gain for me. My situation is essentially that I live 5-6 hours from the nearest crag, and have two kids under the age of 3, so getting outside is incredibly difficult. At this point, I'm getting outside maybe one weekend each spring and one weekend each fall, which is clearly not enough to make real progress, as I have no feel for the rock and no time to really project anything. Obviously this situation is incredibly frustrating, but I'm wondering if I should consider changing the way I'm conducting training cycles...
Generally, my understanding is that you can get endurance with a few weeks/months of hideous suffering, but it takes a lifetime to build high end strength. So I'm thinking it might make more sense for me to give up on worrying about a PE phase (and maybe even a performance phase) and just spend the next year or two working on HB, Campus, Boulder to get stupidly strong?? What would other folks do in this situation? My biggest concern is that I could see myself "forgetting" how to climb, so one idea I had would be to modify the training protocol to be more of a conjugate periodization, where during both HB and Power phases maybe every third workout is a trip to the gym to just climb routes, remember how to move, and get pumped? Seems like I might still be able to make some long term strength gains this way without sacrificing my ability to move efficiently.
Other pros of giving up on PE and Performance phases for a year or two include (a) not having to worry about weight, which is probably my biggest challenge to performance, for a while, and (b) being able to get back on the bike or enjoy other activities without worrying about that additional weight gain. The cons are obvious, and I'm wondering if, even with my generally maniacal dedication to my training schedule, I'd start to lose motivation after a while. (But how much worse could it be than just getting out for a weekend twice a year??) Apparently there are some serviceable bouldering areas nearby, too, that I've never explored, that might allow for getting outside a bit occasionally, without the commitment of a full weekend away...
Anyway, would love to hear people's thoughts. Thanks for your input. |
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Post by MarkAnderson on Apr 26, 2016 20:08:49 GMT -7
I feel for you man!
If I were in your shoes I would probably focus on strength and power training and forego formal PE training until I thought I was going to have a chance to use it. I would still need something to get psyched for--I don't think I could endlessly hangboard--but I really enjoy bouldering on plastic. As long as I had a good gym I think I could be content to do Strength and Power Phases that culminated in a few weeks of fun, hard plastic bouldering (you could throw in plastic routes too if you're into that, but personally I've never much enjoyed route climbing inside). In fact, I've been fantasizing about doing a cycle in which my only goal was to send 1-5-9 on the campus board. I think it would be really interesting/weirdly fun. I think you could come up with some interesting, indoor-focused goals (ie Stupid Human Tricks--iron cross, 1-arm pull-up, etc) to keep you motivated from season to season.
If performance were not a factor, I would definitely ride my bike and forget about dieting (although, I'm pretty confident in my ability to drop weight when I need to--some people really struggle with that, so if they let go for a year or two they might never get it back).
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Post by mickey on Apr 27, 2016 11:29:17 GMT -7
You could always get interested in bouldering if you have some areas close by? Where do you live?
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Post by Lundy on Apr 27, 2016 12:22:40 GMT -7
Thanks, Mark. It's good to get some confirmation about the way I'm thinking about this. There are a number of good gyms around, too, so having performance periods where I go boulder on plastic isn't a bad idea. I haven't re-reviewed the bouldering section of the book yet, but as a general planning guide, I'm thinking I could probably get 4 training cycles per year in -- does that sound about right for a pure bouldering training program? And about the dieting - I used to be quite confident in my ability to drop weight, but it's turned into more of a struggle in the last two years. I'm not sure if that's age (I'm 41) or lifestyle, but man is it getting hard to maintain. Both to stay at a weight that's reasonably close to my fighting weight, and to make the cut happen relatively effectively. So I'll probably have to stay moderately careful, rather than eating a tub of ice cream every night.  |
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Post by Lundy on Apr 27, 2016 12:24:22 GMT -7
Hey Mickey - I live in DC. I understand that there are a few meh areas nearby, but if I can find a few good projects climbing over graffiti, it might still be worth it. I'm not opposed to getting into bouldering at all (I'm more of a bouldery climber anyway), but it's not like I live near a bouldering mecca... Unless someone knows of some hidden gems in the area.
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Post by tedwelser on Apr 27, 2016 12:57:19 GMT -7
Hey Lundy- are you able to build or add on to a home wall, at your place or at a friends? I find that investing in the creation and improvement of home bouldering resources to be an outlet for climbing creativity that captures my imagination enough to get me motivated to climb.
Also, if you make your home climbing / training resource good enough you will come back outside much stronger! A friend of mine did this when he left the Cinci area for Chicago, where he helped start a bouldering coop with some friends. After two years away from the Red he came back crushing harder than ever.
Also, you might find chances to do a summertime trip to the New if you get creative. Perhaps make it a family + friends trip and go bouldering / top roping at Bridge Buttress (stay at the cabins on the gorge perhaps). You could easily carry a pack and play crib into the crag and just hang out near the Jaws boulder all day. As long as you have an adult to child ratio of 2 to 1 you should be fine. You could also break into teams of 2 and get a couple hours climbing at Junkyard or Bubba City (even at night, via headlamp).
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Post by joecoov on Apr 27, 2016 13:34:54 GMT -7
Thanks, Mark. It's good to get some confirmation about the way I'm thinking about this. There are a number of good gyms around, too, so having performance periods where I go boulder on plastic isn't a bad idea. I haven't re-reviewed the bouldering section of the book yet, but as a general planning guide, I'm thinking I could probably get 4 training cycles per year in -- does that sound about right for a pure bouldering training program? And about the dieting - I used to be quite confident in my ability to drop weight, but it's turned into more of a struggle in the last two years. I'm not sure if that's age (I'm 41) or lifestyle, but man is it getting hard to maintain. Both to stay at a weight that's reasonably close to my fighting weight, and to make the cut happen relatively effectively. So I'll probably have to stay moderately careful, rather than eating a tub of ice cream every night. I don't have currently have weight issues, but Dave Macleod had a similar weight issue. If you listen to the pod cast early results of the ketogenic diet worked for him. Since you won't have a performance phase, perhaps this could be a good time to experiment? It could derail your training, or could help. www.trainingbeta.com/media/dave-macleod/?portfolioID=3838 |
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Post by MarkAnderson on Apr 27, 2016 14:37:52 GMT -7
I haven't re-reviewed the bouldering section of the book yet, but as a general planning guide, I'm thinking I could probably get 4 training cycles per year in -- does that sound about right for a pure bouldering training program? You could easily get 4 cycles in. At 3 months per, you have a lot of extra time in there for long rest phases and/or an extended Power Phase (for performance-oriented indoor bouldering). |
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Post by alexandra on Apr 27, 2016 15:36:36 GMT -7
Mark, what would an extended power phase look like? 4-5 weeks? or more?I am also trying to do a few strength and power only cycles, and was thinking dividing them 4.5 weeks strength and 4.5 weeks power. But I though that might be too much time on power, wasn't sure...
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Post by MarkAnderson on Apr 27, 2016 16:32:48 GMT -7
I've been able to campus hard for 8 or 9 consecutive weeks ( details here). It really helps to have inspiring boulder problems to work if you want to go much beyond 4 weeks. In my experience, the limiting factor is not phsyical, it's psych. It's pretty easy to get burned out on endlessly going to the same gym to work the same problems (same goes for going to the same crag to work the same project). |
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Post by Lundy on Apr 27, 2016 18:03:45 GMT -7
Ted - thanks for your thoughts. Regarding the home wall, I have a pretty good setup that I'm pretty psyched to train on, but am working on convincing the wife to let me expand and take over the rest of the garage. (You might recall I previously posted about whether or not I should chop my 45 degree, 20' wide board in half and push some of it back to about 20 degrees)... I think given the current situation, I'd like to add more terrain, rather than cutting the terrain I have, so I think I've got some talking (and cooking, and cleaning, and flower buying) to do.
As for trips to the New, that's definitely in the cars for a few years down the road, but packing a three year old and a ten month old in the car for 5-6 hours for a weekend away is a bit much at this point. Definitely the ultimate goal is family climbing/play in the woods road trips, though.
Joe - thanks for the idea. I had heard the Dave MacLeod training beta interview, and found it super interesting, but hadn't considered that this might be a good time to try something like this. The challenge is that I'm also busy modeling healthy eating for my young kids at night, so cutting all carbs out would be challenging both on the food prep and the "how to explain to the three year old" angle. I'll definitely consider it, though, as you're right this is a great time to experiment.
Another thought I had is that with four cycles per year, this could be a good way to experiment with different HB protocols, as has been discussed in many different posts, in a relatively shorter timeframe... Will of course report back on anything interesting (and, I guess, the non-interesting stuff so we're not suffering from publication bias here!)
Thanks, all. I really appreciate this community for exactly conversations like this one. You guys keep me stoked...
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Post by Chris W on Apr 30, 2016 3:10:52 GMT -7
Lundy, we really should talk.
Regarding outside destinations, my "home crag" is Birdsboro PA. We have a lot of climbers come up from DC, which is about a 3 hour drive. I live in York PA which is about 1 hour from there (the way I drive). It's very kid friendly.
Safe Harbor is closer to me and about 2 hours from you. I've heard it's good, but haven't been there.
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Post by Chris W on Apr 30, 2016 20:30:04 GMT -7
Lundy, what exactly are your reasons for not being able to climb outside more? I just got back from a 1 week trip to the NRG. I took my wife and three kids (4 years, 2 years, and 3 months old). It's a 6 hour drive from my place to Fayetteville if I'm driving solo and don't stop. The kids and my wife did great (I got sick from something the kids had the week before, which is another story). My father in law came to help. I also took my kids and wife to the local crag at Birdsboro several times this season, and my wife belayed me on my most notable send while the baby slept (sort of) in the Peapod tent nearby.
Work's a bit difficult, but I take vacation time for a trip like that, which is limited. I work a lot of weekends (like today, which was a 14 hour day not counting the drive times) so my local climbing is often in the morning when I work an evening shift or with the family on the occasional day off I have. I train HARD to maximize the time and opportunities I have on real rock. NOT counting my NRG trip, I climbed outdoors 6 times this season, all in the PE and Performance phases. Some of those days amounted to only ONE climb, but it was still great to be outdoors.
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Post by joecoov on May 2, 2016 6:37:43 GMT -7
Lundy, we really should talk. Regarding outside destinations, my "home crag" is Birdsboro PA. We have a lot of climbers come up from DC, which is about a 3 hour drive. I live in York PA which is about 1 hour from there (the way I drive). It's very kid friendly. Safe Harbor is closer to me and about 2 hours from you. I've heard it's good, but haven't been there. Safeharbor has a lot of great slab climbs. It has Hydroman (11a) which is a lot of fun and has unique onsight stopper move. If you like stemming Autumn Arch (10b) is one of the best climbs you will find. If you think you are good at slab, try making it through the crux on superslab (10d). If you are a 12 climber, I hear wonderama is a great 12a, and one of the few overhanging routes at Safeharbor. One issue with Safeharbor is that during the summer, the sun can make it pretty miserable to climb there. Birdsboro is definitely better when it is really hot and you want shade. At Birdsboro, be sure to keep your kids to stay away from the rock. It is a bit chossy, and it is not unusual for rock to fall even where no climbers are present. I experienced this climbing there yesterday. -Joe |
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Post by aikibujin on May 3, 2016 20:19:23 GMT -7
If I can only go outside two weekends a year, I think I would go crazy! I know it's a lot of work to go anywhere with small children. I have a 2-year-old boy and a wife that doesn't like to climb, but I worked out an agreement with her so I can go outside one day every weekend. Maybe you can give your wife a "rest day" once a month where you take care of the kids and she can go do something she enjoys, in return she does the same for you, and you get to go climbing outside.
It's being more than 10 years since I lived close to the DC area (southern Maryland to be precise), is Governor's Stable still open to the public on the weekends? I wouldn't call it a bouldering "mecca", but I remember it was a pretty enjoyable area, and I used to take day trips there in winter from southern MD. Of course I've also done day trips to Seneca from southern MD, so my idea of what's day-trip-able maybe a little different from yours. Coopers near Morgantown is also a fun place to boulder, but that's a pretty far drive as well.
Of course you can always go run laps on the slippery schist along the Potomac River and call yourself "Carderock Lundy".
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