|
|
Post by Henry AB on Sept 17, 2015 14:56:49 GMT -7
Various folks (Eric Horst, for instance) recommend certain non-climbing exercises to prevent injuries. Dips and reverse curls are frequently mentioned. Do people think those exercises are worth doing? I don't recall reading any recommendations about those in the book or on these forums. The theory behind these exercises seems to be that they strengthen antagonist muscle groups and prevent strength imbalances. Does that theory seem correct? Thanks!
|
|
|
|
Post by Chris W on Sept 17, 2015 17:19:57 GMT -7
The theory behind these exercises seems to be that they strengthen antagonist muscle groups and prevent strength imbalances. Does that theory seem correct?
I don't quite buy into the theory that strengthening antagonist muscles prevents injuries; at least not in the way most people think and especially not in climbing (football may be a different story). For example, I don't think that working finger extensions helps prevent pulley injuries. I don't have any scientific evidence to back up that statement, and I'm sure someone has some article or source that states otherwise, but I'm not convinced.
I tend to think of two types of injuries; acute injuries (ouch! I sprained an ankle falling off the start or $hi! I just blew a pulley!) and chronic overuse injuries (my elbow keeps hurting when I campus).
Strengthening antagonist or non-climbing muscles can help prevent acute injuries in case you stress those muscles accidentally or in an unusual way. I train my antagonist muscles so I don't hurt myself playing with my kids (daddy, throw me in the air!) or (sweetheart, could you please move this piece of furniture...). Training smart and progressively can help prevent acute injuries in climbing muscles (good thing I'm training my mono on my hangboard so I don't rip off my middle finger in this sweet tweaker pocket)
Overuse injuries are likely related to bad form, poor choice of exercises, weakness in the muscles or supporting structures used, or all of the above. I can't see how doing reverse wrist curls will treat or prevent the medial epicondylitis you've (I've  ) developed from doing too many pull ups on a fixed bar while subconsciously flexing my wrists and pronating into the bar. What will get that problem better is fixing your (my) form and strengthening the effected muscles and tendons.
|
|
|
|
Post by MarkAnderson on Sept 17, 2015 18:37:35 GMT -7
I'm like Chris. First off, I don't really believe there are "antagonist muscles" in climbing (or at least not very many). Fingers are a great example--the notion that you don't use your extensors for climbing is hogwash. But it goes for most if not all climbing-related joints. I use my triceps all the time, and I use my shoulders in every conceivable motion while climbing. I think if you use a well-rounded selection of supplemental exercises, you will train every relevant joint in every direction, in which case the "antagonist" concept won't apply.
|
|
|
|
Post by slimshaky on Sept 18, 2015 14:29:59 GMT -7
i think dips are a great way to wreck your elbows and shoulders. last winter, i decided to add them to my SE's. after about 2 workouts my elbows and shoulders were really hating them. as in, REALLY hating them.
|
|
|
|
Post by rob on Sept 18, 2015 21:25:37 GMT -7
I would have to agree with slim on that one. Dips, especially weighted, seem to place your shoulders under a lot of stress in an awkward position. I'm still pretty sure they contributed largely to my shoulder issues I've been experiencing.
|
|
|
|
Post by Chris W on Sept 19, 2015 6:05:58 GMT -7
I try not to go past a 90 degree bend in the elbows when doing dips or bench press. Further will place a lot of stress on those joints.
|
|
Sander
Junior Member
Posts: 61 
|
Post by Sander on Sept 30, 2015 4:18:32 GMT -7
I'm not a fan of targeting antagonists specifically: like Mark I feel I am using all my upper body muscles while climbing. But rarely these muscles are pushed to failure while climbing and if they are, it's usually in an injury-prone, dynamic or tweaky way. That's why I like training them separately (in the supplemental exercises for example). I has helped me a lot with regard to staying injury free: for example when I started to boulder more, I often had nagging little pains in my shoulders. I picked up a range of shoulder exercises (trying to target all muscles in a balanced way) and since then (knock on wood…) I haven't had a single shoulder injury anymore.
|
|
|
|
Post by Lundy on Sept 30, 2015 8:32:49 GMT -7
My experience has been similar to Sander's. My SEs include weighted push ups and dips on rings, as well as shoulder presses. I used to have lots of regular, nagging pain in my shoulders and elbows, and now have none. I also do a lot of preventative, lightweight exercises on my shoulders and elbows, though (I wrote in detail about them elsewhere). I'm not sure if the preventative exercises are both eliminating my pain from climbing and allowing me to do those SEs, or if they're combining with the SEs to make my climbing pain free, but whatever the mechanism, it's pretty wonderful to not constantly feel injured in some small, nagging way.
|
|
|
|
Post by Charlie S on Oct 27, 2015 18:32:18 GMT -7
In Dave MacLeod's "Make or Break", he talks about this. Imbalances really have to do with posture, as opposed to equivalent strength. Posture can be corrected given you put some conscious effort into it (like slouching and letting your internal rotators dominate).
Regarding injury-prevention exercises, they are going to be person specific. I have to do eccentric suppination exercises to keep my elbows happy. I've also started some very basic (and actually non-weighted) shoulder exercises which increase the proprioceptive feedback and train the shoulder blade in the path it should go. Core exercises are done to impress the wife.
I also bench and do pushups for camaraderie with a non-climber. I actually find that heavy (for me) benching irritates the elbows, so I spend some time warming up before and stretching afterwards.
Ultimately, you'll have to find what works for you. Your body is going to respond and hurt in different places than anyone else's.
|
|
|
|
Post by Lundy on Oct 27, 2015 18:43:27 GMT -7
Charlie -- I read Make or Break and really enjoyed it, but I'm curious about how you determined that your shoulder blade path was off, for lack of a better way to put it. I understand what he's saying in that section, but he doesn't really provide an idea of how to test for whether you're shoulder moves correctly. What did you do to figure this out? (or maybe he does include it in there and I missed it when I read it...)
Thanks.
|
|
|
|
Post by Charlie S on Oct 27, 2015 19:49:10 GMT -7
Charlie -- I read Make or Break and really enjoyed it, but I'm curious about how you determined that your shoulder blade path was off, for lack of a better way to put it. I understand what he's saying in that section, but he doesn't really provide an idea of how to test for whether you're shoulder moves correctly. What did you do to figure this out? (or maybe he does include it in there and I missed it when I read it...) Thanks. I started doing the arm extensions as a precaution. Random movements like raising my hand at a conference have made it pop, though range of movement has never been impaired. At least not yet. It really went back to the posture because I know it's poor. If I can tighten up some of those muscles to pull my shoulders back into alignment, I'm hoping to avoid any long term injuries. An ounce of prevention, essentially. Although I also find carrying way heavy packs to the bases of crags (mmm, double crack racks!) pulls the shoulders back...   |
|
) developed from doing too many pull ups on a fixed bar while subconsciously flexing my wrists and pronating into the bar. What will get that problem better is fixing your (my) form and strengthening the effected muscles and tendons.
