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Post by MarkAnderson on Jul 18, 2015 10:56:21 GMT -7
Thanks for the great summary Will. For those who are unfamiliar, Will (Strickland--see RCTM page 2) definitely knows his stuff. He's strong as hell in his own right and his climbing team is remarkably successful relative to the talent pool they draw from.
Will, keep us posted on your Frequency experiment! I'm very interested to hear how it goes.
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Post by Will S on Jul 19, 2015 13:00:13 GMT -7
Thanks Mark. One of ours just made the US National team, she worked very hard and it's great to see her get the payoff. I worked a little with one of Doug Hunter's team kids a couple weeks ago, kind of a last training session before they headed off to nationals. Whatever someone might think about the SCC book/scheme, Doug's climbers have very, very good movement. It was interesting to see our girl and his on the same stuff, they are climbing about the same level, and there was a big contrast between their strengths and weaknesses. But I digress...
My post before was kind of a 10,000ft view, very generalized. You can get way into the weeds on this stuff. Mainly because the time under tension in a hangboard "rep" is a lot different than typical weight lifting exercises.
A snatch is basically made or dumped within 2-3 seconds or less, deadlifts within 4. Squats and bench press, even on a grinding rep, rarely go over 8 seconds, and you won't do more than one or two when grinding, because failure will set in. By contrast, you're looking at least 7 seconds on a hangboard rep. So a 5 rep set on the board is ~50second TUT, vs probably 20sec for a 5 rep set of bench press. Add the isometric factor, and it makes drawing from other types of training difficult.
I've gone back entirely to 10/5s on the board after several cycles of 7/3, because I can't chalk in 3 seconds and end up blowing the timing or skipping the chalk and failing due to sliding rather than muscular failure. Even on sets of singles or doubles, I've gone back to 10s, because there are some theoretical constructs that believe exhausting the PCr stores are important, and the stores tend to last ~8-9 seconds.
A counter-argument to this idea of exhausting the PCr, is the Charlie Francis scheme (Charlie was a Canadian olympic sprinter in the 70s then the national team sprinting coach, his athletes set dozens of world records, ideas were groundbreaking at the time). Charlie had his 100m sprinters running many reps of 70m-80m (and almost never 100m) because they could get more volume at max intensity while still fully in the PCr energy system.
Then you can get into proportion of fast twitch vs. slow twitch in individual muscle groups (e.g. the calf muscles are predominantly slow twitch, vs. hamstrings which are mostly fast) which feeds into the best way to target the specific muscle wrt frequency and intensity. Complicating that is that each person has genetic differences in their proportions. More complication, forearms have something like 20 individual muscles.
So how deep down the rabbit hole do we need to go to be effective? At some point it just becomes overwhelming and too complicated and you either pick something proven by experience, or you mix it up. Since people will need to adjust one or more parameters (intensity, frequency, density, volume) somewhat regularly to keep making progress, there is a lot of latitude in what "works" and nothing works forever.
And with that, I'm off to take a nap and then train. This high frequency thing is kicking my butt, so tired. I'll weigh in on that once I run it for a couple months.
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Post by MarkAnderson on Jul 19, 2015 19:05:40 GMT -7
Thanks Mark. One of ours just made the US National team, she worked very hard and it's great to see her get the payoff. Congrats man!! That's really awesome. I'm sure she couldn't have done it without you. |
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Post by slimshaky on Jul 20, 2015 9:58:47 GMT -7
... because I can't chalk in 3 seconds and end up blowing the timing or skipping the chalk and failing due to sliding rather than muscular failure. please, somebody out there tell me i am not the only one who chalks before every rep. i won't mention that i use liquid chalk before every set though... also, will, big congrats on your team's success. that's gotta be a lot of work and i am glad to see it pay off. |
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Post by daustin on Jul 21, 2015 19:27:38 GMT -7
... because I can't chalk in 3 seconds and end up blowing the timing or skipping the chalk and failing due to sliding rather than muscular failure. please, somebody out there tell me i am not the only one who chalks before every rep. i won't mention that i use liquid chalk before every set though... also, will, big congrats on your team's success. that's gotta be a lot of work and i am glad to see it pay off. Do you run reps at 7/3 or 10/5 (or something else)? Like Will, I also can't chalk without messing up the timing on 7/3. For where I'm at now, this isn't really too much of an issue on any grip except the wide pinch on the RPTC. I feel like I start failing the wide pinch grip due to slippage rather than muscular failure. I'm almost at the end of my current HB cycle so I'm just going to keep my protocol the same for now, but this conversation gives me some good ideas for how to tweak my next cycle. I was originally thinking of keeping the 7/3 rep for the wide pinch, but doing fewer reps with higher resistance so that I'd reach muscular failure before I was totally de-chalked and slipping. But Will's comments make me wonder if I'd be better off switching to 10/5 and allowing myself time to chalk up... (Actually I might wind up removing the pinch grip altogether -- I have to HB at the gym and the RPTC isn't adjustable. The board's halves are a good width apart for the various edges and pockets, but the pinch grips are far enough apart that I'm starting to notice some shoulder tweakiness.) |
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Post by slimshaky on Jul 22, 2015 10:56:34 GMT -7
my usual protocol is 5 on 5 off 6 reps. i have experimented with 7 on 3 off, and i use a couple little hooks under my hangboard (to the sides) so that i can hang chalk balls and get a super quick dab.
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Post by MarkAnderson on Jul 22, 2015 13:38:01 GMT -7
... i use a couple little hooks under my hangboard (to the sides) so that i can hang ... I thought you were gonna say "...little wires to support my weight without anyone noticing"  |
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Post by slimshaky on Jul 23, 2015 12:49:39 GMT -7
hey now, don't tell folks how i am achieving my huge HB stats! either that, or you have a weird fascination with marionettes....?
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