Hey everybody, I'm wondering if I'm doing something wrong on my PE workout. On the first LBC workout I did 4 sets and I finished extenuated, barely could breath basically. On my second and third workout I did more sets, reduced rest ratio from 2:1 to 1.5:1 and 1.3:1. On both second and third workout I fell on the last two sets (out of those four sets, three times on the same move (#16 out of 30 total moves in the circuit, a reachy move to a jug from two single pad crimps)).
However, I don't feel so tired at the end of the workout, I don't really feel tired at all and don't feel that pumped (although while doing the set I do feel tired, but recover about 15 seconds into the rest).
Post by MarkAnderson on Jan 30, 2015 9:36:23 GMT -7
That doesn't sound right. You should definitely feel pumped, and if you're recovered 15 secs into the rest period, then you are either superhuman, or "doing it wrong". Normally by the 3rd or 4th set, you are still quite pumped when you START the set. And by the end of the workout, you should be breathing really hard and extremely worked.
How much time does it take to climb the circuit? It may simply be too short to develop a decent pump. Are you able to rest/shake out during the set? If you're falling off, it must be hard for you at some point, but maybe the intensity is too inconsistent, and you are able to recover on the easier section of the circuit. If that is the case, try to increase the difficulty of the easier sections, or just climb quickly through those sections, intentionally avoiding rest opportunities.
Once you have started the workout, it doesn't really make sense to change the circuit itself, but you can increase the difficulty mid-workout if you can tell right away that it's too easy. First you can reduce your rest interval. If that doesn't work, you can add additional sets until you achieve the desired effect.
Agreed, that doesn't match up with my LBC experience at all. Like Mark said, by the 3rd or 4th set, I'm usually about as pumped as I'll ever get. I'm talking borderline nausea-pump -- the real deal!
For reference, I've done LBCs in the range of 20-30 moves, usually consisting of 3-4 problems of V1-V4, with a rest ratio ranging from 2:1 to 1.5:1. I'm usually climbing continuously (no rests) for 1-1.5 minutes per set. I think the hardest LBC I've done was V4, V2, V3, V1. I can frequently flash V5 at this gym and usually work on V7-8. V1 is normally a total cakewalk, like climbing a less-than-vertical ladder. By the end of the LBC, a V1 has me feeling like KJorg on pitch 15 of the Dawn Wall.
In terms of diagnosis, I don't have much to offer beyond Mark. The fact that you're falling about halfway through the circuit but not feeling pumped sounds like the circuit is too cruxy and not sustained enough. Might need to reduce the maximum difficulty and increase the minimum difficulty of the moves you're doing -- so your hardest moves (sounds like move #16 might be one) will be easier, but your easiest moves will be harder.
The problem is 30 hand movements long and it takes me about 1.30m to do it (doing it quickly). It does have rest opportunities but I don't shake/chalk up on them at all.
I think the problem is the linking of the problems (i.e. the downclimb and the traverse) which I'm doing on too good jugs. Particularly going from problem 1 to problem 2 I need to downclimb quite a bit, since problem 2 has an almost-sit-start, so I use three jugs to do the downclimb, while moving my feet 6 times.
I counted the jugs, out of 30 movements 16 of them are on jugs. That's probably what would be giving me a rest opportunity even without shaking?
Here's the video of the circuit, any feedback would be much appreciated. Note that the blue two finger pocket on 00:23 is supposed to be used as a one-finger pocket but I forgot about it while doing it. It mimics the crux section of my goal route where you go from a one finger pocket to a crappy crimp.
Also, I was trying to use MarkAnderson's suggestion of going through it faster, so the technique is a bit subpar.
Move #16 (the one where I fell 3 times out of the 4 times I fell during previous workouts) is the one on 00:46; its a deadpoint to a jug, but the previous two holds are pretty bad (two half-pad crimps)
The last problem has two jugs, that also mimics a problem of the route where you have two juggy reachy moves and then a deadpoint to a good sidepull.
Thanks for the help guys! I'm struggling a lot with this phase!
It seems like a lot of your weight is on your feet due to the angle of the wall and those feet look good. I guarantee if you kick the angle back to a consistent 15-30 degrees (instead of the variable angle you have there) you'll get a lot more pumped.
FWIW, I did the PE today in my hangboard at home, to see what it would feel like. I don't have a kick plate so I just placed two chairs in front of me (to mimic an overhang), one a bit to the left (to the left of my left hand) and another to the right (to the right of my right hand).
I did 5 sets of 2:00 with 1:20 reset. I kept switching holds and moving my feet from one chair to the other one, doing flags with the foot that corresponded to the hand that was on the crappier handhold (to load it more).
I found that by the end of the first set I could feel a bit of a pump. By the second one I was fully pumped. Completing the last three was quite challenging and by the time I would start the set I would already feel tired. No 100% recovery, more like a 25% recovery after the rest.
Does that align better with your experience?
Btw, I had to play it conservatively since I couldn't really fall without hurting myself, my hangboard is pretty high up and I have to use a stand I built to reach it, so I couldn't push it till the breaking point, so most of the time one of my hands was either on the warm up jug, large open hand crimp or on the pocket. Next time I'm going to try putting my crashpad under the hangboard to see if I can push it more.
I'd be interested in hearing about experience of people who have done the PE workout using a hangboard! I found that the most challenging point was when I was moving my feet from one chair to the other one, loading a lot my hands.
@marcanderson, is a protocol sort of like what I used what you guys had in mind when you mentioned using the hangboard for the power endurance workout?
Thanks for the help guys!
Last Edit: Feb 4, 2015 14:55:42 GMT -7 by heelhook
I would avoid doing PE on a fingerboard unless you are constrained to an offshore oil rig. PE training involves so much more than timed contractions, it brings in a mental game, technique, pacing and breathing. The best PE training is done with a partner climbing during your rest periods, and cheering you on during your work periods.
I would avoid doing PE on a fingerboard unless you are constrained to an offshore oil rig. PE training involves so much more than timed contractions, it brings in a mental game, technique, pacing and breathing.
+1. At the very least, it's important to train the rest of the body to delay fatigue from sustained climbing. Furthermore, PE training is very helpful for teaching you how hard you can continue to climb when you're really pumped. This also includes a practice element--learning to stay calm and continue to execute moves efficiently despite a raging pump. To really get the most out of these aspects of PE training, it's best to do it on sport-specific terrain.
Still, something is better than nothing. For the OP, if you don't have good PE terrain in your gym, consider doing it outside on rock, which you have plenty of. I do a mix, usually one day a week on plastic that includes an LBC or Route Interval, and 2 days a week outside on RP attempts (or at least making a concerted effort to get "long", pump-inducing linkage).