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Post by nicolashike on Apr 13, 2019 16:19:46 GMT -7
Hello climbers,
I am currently on my third strength phase. I got some pretty good results in my two previous strength phase, but on this current one, progress are slower. I am basically using the RCTM beginner HB routine: -IMR -Semi closed crimp -MRP -Open hand crimp -MR -Large pinch -Medium pinch -Sloper All with 6x10s hang, 3 mins rest between sets
What is happening is that I am literally only improving in my 2 first sets (IMR & semi closed crimp) while the other 6 are stagnating. My guess is that 3 mins is simply not enough for me to recover between sets. So now the question: should I increase the rest time to 5 or even 6 minutes? Two things to keep in mind:
- My goal is to improve my sport climb. This summer, I will be climbing a lot outside and it's going to be 95% crimps - I am a former powerlifter who rarely took less than 5 minutes between sets. From my weight lifting experience, my body responds way better with longer rest between sets.
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Post by acmesalute76 on Apr 14, 2019 8:25:36 GMT -7
I just did my third hangboard cycle and had similar results. I gained ten pounds on one grip and basically nothing anywhere else. I am going to switch to the intermediate timing next season, because I feel like those last 3 seconds are where my strength fades and I start training endurance. I have a similar training background, doing very well on low volume, high intensity weight training.
The important thing for me is that although I didn’t see gains across the board, I did see gains, and that translated into climbing harder. So I didn’t really stress about it too much. I wouldn’t have wanted to increase rest times since the workout already takes so long.
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Post by jetjackson on Apr 14, 2019 18:36:30 GMT -7
Not unusual to only gain on the first 3 or so grips from season to season, they usually get the most results. I always prioritise the most important grips for my climbing area based on where my goal routes are.
It is hard to say based on the information provided. What session are you hitting your previous max in? That could be a big factor.
Are you weighing yourself before each hang session - have you put on any weight?
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Post by Charlie S on Apr 14, 2019 19:02:12 GMT -7
1, you're pretty "fully recovered" by 3 minutes (Horst has some presentations/podcasts on this). If you're not improving, it's likely due to some other factors. 2, decrease the number of grips, or at least consolidate. 3, switch to the intermediate and go 7s on, 3s off. I found I was able to increase strength better with that setup. 10s is a long time to hang, and for me, departs from strength and goes well into endurance territory.
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Post by nicolashike on Apr 14, 2019 19:46:37 GMT -7
Not unusual to only gain on the first 3 or so grips from season to season, they usually get the most results. I always prioritise the most important grips for my climbing area based on where my goal routes are. It is hard to say based on the information provided. What session are you hitting your previous max in? That could be a big factor. Are you weighing yourself before each hang session - have you put on any weight? Sets #3 to 7 remained the same for the past 4 sessions. Sets #1 & 2 improved by 2.5 lbs on every sessions, but I doubt that this trend will remain constant for the next sessions. I also got some light improvement on set #8 like 2.5 ish lbs increase. My bodyweight has been fluctuating by 1-2 lbs maximum for the past 2 years. 1, you're pretty "fully recovered" by 3 minutes (Horst has some presentations/podcasts on this). If you're not improving, it's likely due to some other factors. 2, decrease the number of grips, or at least consolidate. 3, switch to the intermediate and go 7s on, 3s off. I found I was able to increase strength better with that setup. 10s is a long time to hang, and for me, departs from strength and goes well into endurance territory.
Interesting, I never thought of switching to the intermediate routine that early in my climbing career. I will probably keep pushing this current strength phase until my first 2 grips plateau, and then switch to the power phase. Next strength phase is going to use an intermediate routine pattern.
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Post by Charlie S on Apr 14, 2019 20:02:42 GMT -7
How early is early?
Also, I forgot to add, if I stagnate at a weight, I will drop back 10-15 pounds and work my way back up at 5 pound increments to build a better base.
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Post by nicolashike on Apr 14, 2019 20:33:55 GMT -7
Well, I have been climbing for barely 2 years (22 months to be exact). But I do know that the routine level has more to do with the body response to the stimuli than the number of years of climbing experience.
When you say you back off 10-15 lbs, do you mean for your next strength phase? Or during the current strength phase?
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Post by jetjackson on Apr 15, 2019 1:09:59 GMT -7
Not unusual to only gain on the first 3 or so grips from season to season, they usually get the most results. I always prioritise the most important grips for my climbing area based on where my goal routes are. It is hard to say based on the information provided. What session are you hitting your previous max in? That could be a big factor. Are you weighing yourself before each hang session - have you put on any weight? Sets #3 to 7 remained the same for the past 4 sessions. Sets #1 & 2 improved by 2.5 lbs on every sessions, but I doubt that this trend will remain constant for the next sessions. I also got some light improvement on set #8 like 2.5 ish lbs increase. This your third season of hangboarding - assume you are doing somewhere between 7-10 hangboard workouts in each season. What workout session are you hitting your previous seasons best. i.e. if you heaviest you hung a half crimp in season 2 was +10 pounds, are you hitting +10 pounds on that grip in your 5th, 6th workout etc?
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Post by Charlie S on Apr 15, 2019 5:39:49 GMT -7
When you say you back off 10-15 lbs, do you mean for your next strength phase? Or during the current strength phase? For the next workout within the current phase.
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Post by nicolashike on Apr 16, 2019 16:12:10 GMT -7
Sets #3 to 7 remained the same for the past 4 sessions. Sets #1 & 2 improved by 2.5 lbs on every sessions, but I doubt that this trend will remain constant for the next sessions. I also got some light improvement on set #8 like 2.5 ish lbs increase. This your third season of hangboarding - assume you are doing somewhere between 7-10 hangboard workouts in each season. What workout session are you hitting your previous seasons best. i.e. if you heaviest you hung a half crimp in season 2 was +10 pounds, are you hitting +10 pounds on that grip in your 5th, 6th workout etc? On my first phase, I hit my max on workout #7. I felt like I could have been pushing the weight a little higher if I kept going, but I was leaving for a trip so I ended this strength phase there.
On my second phase, I hit my max on workout #7 and there was no way I could add more weight for the next workout so I ended this strength phase there.
In these two strength phase, some grips were improving faster than others, but in the end of the phase I was able to increase the weight in all grips.
Which brings me to phase #3: my current max for grips 1 & 2 is at my latest workout (#4) and I will keep pushing it until I hit a plateau.
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Post by jetjackson on Apr 17, 2019 9:16:36 GMT -7
When you hangboard, do you only hangboard? Do you exclude everything else? Is some other sport or workout consuming your recovery capacity?
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Post by nicolashike on Apr 17, 2019 20:11:25 GMT -7
When you hangboard, do you only hangboard? Do you exclude everything else? Is some other sport or workout consuming your recovery capacity? On day 1, I warm up with bouldering up to 1 level below my flash level. Then I hangboard. Then I do 2 sets of low reps heavy weighted pull ups (or chin ups) and two more sets of accessory exercises for balance development purpose.
On day 2, I lead climb (in a gym) and I limit myself to 2 levels below my onsight level. I also avoid the over-crimpy routes to give my fingers a break.
On day 3, I rest.
On day 4, I repeat the schedule.
I must also add that I eat a fuckton of healthy food, get plenty of sleep, massage my fingers with a massage ring and occasionaly do some contrast bathing for my forearms.
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Post by jetjackson on Apr 19, 2019 1:51:15 GMT -7
On day 2, I lead climb (in a gym) and I limit myself to 2 levels below my onsight level. I also avoid the over-crimpy routes to give my fingers a break.
I must also add that I eat a fuckton of healthy food, get plenty of sleep, massage my fingers with a massage ring and occasionaly do some contrast bathing for my forearms.
I'm fairly sure this could be the issue as that gym day is eating into your ability to recover. Try doing a cycle where there is nothing but rest on those other days. Why are you gym climbing on that day? It's not adding anything to your training - It's only taking away from it. TBH I do most of those other things you mention, get plenty of sleep and eat healthy food - I also severely limit drinking during my hangboard cycle (and in general) - I think such restraint is pretty common among climbers in this forum. The main point being that doing those things is pretty standard, and probably won't overcome the increase in load that adding in a lead climbing day does.
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Post by nicolashike on Apr 19, 2019 12:30:18 GMT -7
I just finished my hangboard workout #6 and it was total hell. So yeah, it is pretty obvious that I haven't recovered completely from my last workout due to overtraining. To be honest, I find it pretty hard to do only hangboard workouts and nothing else during the week as I enjoy climbing (and training in general). The climbing days were only for fun and I limited the grades so that I could work on technique while not compromising my recovery. Obviously, it did not go as planned.
Nevertheless, I still managed to increase my grip #1 by 12 lbs and grip #2 by 10 lbs during this current strength phase. In the next strength phase, I will do things differently based on my experience in this phase.
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Post by acmesalute76 on Apr 19, 2019 14:47:20 GMT -7
I just finished my hangboard workout #6 and it was total hell. So yeah, it is pretty obvious that I haven't recovered completely from my last workout due to overtraining. To be honest, I find it pretty hard to do only hangboard workouts and nothing else during the week as I enjoy climbing (and training in general). The climbing days were only for fun and I limited the grades so that I could work on technique while not compromising my recovery. Obviously, it did not go as planned. Nevertheless, I still managed to increase my grip #1 by 12 lbs and grip #2 by 10 lbs during this current strength phase. In the next strength phase, I will do things differently based on my experience in this phase. Those are pretty great improvements in my opinion! Something I did this cycle was instead of hangboarding every third day, I did it twice a week. This was a necessity due to work, but it allowed me a day to climb easy things if I wanted and still have two rest days before my next HB workout. I didn’t do it every week, and I would climb VERY easy, fun things (friction slab is a great option if you have it), but I would consider that schedule again to have a little more freedom to get out and stay sane. I got about the same gains this way, it only stretched the cycle a few days, and it seemed to go by quicker.
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