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Post by Chris W on Dec 8, 2018 10:15:02 GMT -7
It sounds as though Moon progressed fairly quickly between ages 16 and 18 years, jumping large grade gaps in the process. The book so far doesn't go into much detail about this. I'm wondering if has to do with the availability of routes at that time and/or the fact that he was just hanging out with stronger climbers (Moffitt). Perhaps it just has to do with the fact that the standard at that time was lower. Doesn't sound like he approached hi climbing in any structured way.
Also it appears that he was grading his climbs, like Statement, much lower than the now accept consensus grades.
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Post by MarkAnderson on Dec 8, 2018 14:26:29 GMT -7
I think it’s due to two things. One, climbing with literally the best climber in the world, and two, he was just really naturally talented.
It seems like many of the superstars have the same basic story— start climbing, get really good overnight, credit their amazing work ethic.
Clearly Ben was super talented. Nobody gets that good that fast without injury, unless they have supernatural gifts. The most obvious gift is his super slight frame, but I’m guessing he also had above average finger strength.
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Post by Chris W on Dec 8, 2018 17:33:30 GMT -7
Do you know what his size was? He mentions dieting but that the most weight he ever lost was when he cut off his dreads. The book, btw, picks up some steam starting with the chapter Zeke the Freak.
Similar to Revelations, I feel like I'd get a better grasp of the book if I drew out a very detailed timeline of Ben's life involving his location and significant life events. I also would do a bit better with a map in front of me of England and Europe and proper pronunciation of all the odd French and [English??] routes and crags.
I also wish I had titled the thread The Ben Moon Story instead of the Been Moon Story. Perhaps the magical administrators can fix that.
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Post by Admin on Dec 9, 2018 8:23:02 GMT -7
Fixed it for ya!
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Post by Chris W on Dec 9, 2018 18:04:15 GMT -7
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Post by Chris W on Dec 10, 2018 17:51:45 GMT -7
Just finished the book. The second half was much better than the first half, though still not quite as good as I hoped.
I've got a lot of things underlined in the book, so I'm not sure where to start.
It sounds like he more or less cruised through the grades and routes (by working hard and climbing hard) up until he was working on Hubble. He seems to start being a little more systematic or deliberate with his training around that time.
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Post by Chris W on Dec 11, 2018 21:00:30 GMT -7
So... If no one wants to talk about his training, how about his struggles with Action Direct? I can't say I'm surprised that he hurt his finger on it, but I was a bit surprised to read that he never felt like his finger completely recovered. He seems to have climbed plenty of hard stuff since then. There's no mention of him trying to specifically rehab his finger, at least not the way we talk about it here on the forum.
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Post by MarkAnderson on Dec 12, 2018 8:14:31 GMT -7
Sorry man, I'm just not that far along. I just finished the chapter about his trip to France with Jerry where he climbed Chimpanzodrome. My take away from that chapter is that the writing is still incredibly obnoxious and its noteworthy that Moon climbed his first 13a as a teenager in 3 days when his previous best was 12a. I also didn't realize that Marc LeMenstrel was a similar phenom. I find it ironic that he's now thought of as a training guru when it would appear he didn't really need to do much of it when he was coming up. I find myself more interested in the struggles of guys like Moffatt and Tribout who had to work at it.
Anyway, regarding his injured finger, in my experience that's pretty common with natural talents. They never really had to learn how to acquire strength, so when they lose it they don't have a reliable process for getting back to lean on. Imagine committing to a 6-month period of hangboard-focused rehab without prior systematic hangboard experience and the knowledge that it does in fact work. First of all, that idea would never occur to you, and even if someone else suggested it, it would take an incredible leap of faith to follow it through.
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Post by Chris W on Dec 12, 2018 8:56:13 GMT -7
I find it ironic that he's now thought of as a training guru when it would appear he didn't really need to do much of it when he was coming up. r You mean Moon? I was thinking the same thing. He seems to just climb, and climb hard, at least early on. I believe he was very fortunate to hang out with guys like Moffitt and basically rode along with him (and other strong guys). This gave him insight into what was possible as well as access to world class routes. He doesn't seem to really train until after he does Hubble, and he didn't seem to advance much after that. Good point about the rehab. I suppose it wasn't really thought of back then. Some day, I think it would be really cool to check out that rock in France. It looks gorgeous.
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Post by MarkAnderson on Dec 12, 2018 10:02:13 GMT -7
You mean Moon? ...I believe he was very fortunate to hang out with guys like Moffitt and basically rode along with him (and other strong guys). This gave him insight into what was possible as well as access to world class routes.
Yes...and I completely agree. He was lucky to have talent and he was lucky to be in the right place at the right time and fall in with the right mentor. I think the value of mentorship is really overlooked. I always longed for that. I learned a few key things from random people here and there, but it would have helped a TON to have a proper mentor who could show me the ropes. [edit to add: I guess in a way my mentors were books; what I lacked in social assertiveness I made up for by studying whatever media resources I could find--books, videos, magazine articles and eventually forums].
If you really wanted to improve the state of climbing within a given community, creating a mentorship program would be a great way to do it!
Some day, I think it would be really cool to check out that rock in France. It looks gorgeous. Well, not any of the crags they climbed at. Those are all shitpiles by modern standards! Buoux does look gorgeous but its polished all to hell now, and places like Orgon are just dank roadside piles. You want to go to Ceuse, Rodellar, Oliana, Kalymnos, etc.
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Post by Chris W on Dec 12, 2018 18:16:02 GMT -7
I'm the same way; it just took me a while to find the right book. I will say that I was very fortunate to meet some guys at the North Summit Climbing Gym who taught me to climb safely. I was on my own for performance rock climbing. In terms of an actual mentor, I'm not sure one would have helped me unless they really knew what they were doing. Those guys (Ben, Jerry) started very young, and it's easy for me to wish I had started much younger than I did (late 20's). At the same time though, starting later in life has been a major advantage. I have always worked very hard in my athletic endeavors, but was severely hampered early on by my mental game. Finding climbing a little later in life has allowed me to approach it with a [slightly more mature] intellectual, psychological and emotional state. If I had started climbing when I was in my teens, I would likely either be in a rut or would have quit altogether. My mental game is still, in large part, my weakness (along with poor finger strength). That makes me a bit sad. I love climbing, but I'm pretty selfish in my love of climbing. I don't really want it to be popular; I want the crag to myself and good rock. I guess I can just focus on doing my part. I replace old bolts in good style (same hole, new long lasting hardware), replace anchors, clean up the crag, build and repair trails, replace fixed draws, and am raising 4 kids who will enjoy and take care of the outdoors. Anyway, in terms of the book, do you want to set a goal, like read a certain chapter by a certain date to keep folks on the same page (pun intended)? I'm fine with whatever we decide.
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Post by cozisco on Dec 12, 2018 18:26:02 GMT -7
I love climbing, but I'm pretty selfish in my love of climbing. I don't really want it to be popular; I want the crag to myself and good rock. I guess I can just focus on doing my part. I replace old bolts in good style (same hole, new long lasting hardware), replace anchors, clean up the crag, build and repair trails, replace fixed draws, and am raising 4 kids who will enjoy and take care of the outdoors. I'm the same way. I keep hoping the sudden increase in climbing's popularity is a passing fad and they'll flock to a new hobby (aerial yoga?) in due time. Then we'll be left with all the infrastructure (routes, trails, gyms), but none of the crowds. Barring that, all we can do is act as good stewards and hope that newer climbers follow suit.
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Post by jetjackson on Dec 12, 2018 21:13:15 GMT -7
I love climbing, but I'm pretty selfish in my love of climbing. I don't really want it to be popular; I want the crag to myself and good rock. I guess I can just focus on doing my part. I replace old bolts in good style (same hole, new long lasting hardware), replace anchors, clean up the crag, build and repair trails, replace fixed draws, and am raising 4 kids who will enjoy and take care of the outdoors. I'm the same way. I keep hoping the sudden increase in climbing's popularity is a passing fad and they'll flock to a new hobby (aerial yoga?) in due time. Then we'll be left with all the infrastructure (routes, trails, gyms), but none of the crowds. Barring that, all we can do is act as good stewards and hope that newer climbers follow suit. FWIW - I bumped into KP of Black Diamond at Maple Canyon a few years ago. I was chatting to him about the growth of the sport, and he was less convinced that you could directly correlate the growth of climbing gyms with the growth in outdoor climbing - their market research suggested that the majority of people would only ever climb indoors. He noted that for something like every set of quick-draws they would sell 20 harnesses - something crazy like that. If you want to move to Australia, there are plenty of crags I go to in the Gramps, with classic routes, where we won't see anyone all day - and I mean on the hike in and out, and at the crag. Just don't all of you move here
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Post by MarkAnderson on Dec 13, 2018 12:34:54 GMT -7
In terms of an actual mentor, I'm not sure one would have helped me unless they really knew what they were doing. Ya, thinking about it more, a good mentor would be really tough to find for someone who trains effectively, because it wouldn’t take long to outpace the mentor. That’s some interesting info about climbing popularity. In Denver the gym scene has exploded in the last five years. I can attest that the crags are also waaay more crowded than they were 5 years ago. It’s surely not a 1:1 correlation but there’s no doubt in my mind the general increase in popularity is impacting the crags. Still, nobody is willing to walk more than 10 minutes to a crag. If you want solitude, just get used to walking 5 minutes more than everyone else.
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Post by Chris W on Dec 13, 2018 17:06:40 GMT -7
Agincourt = a battle in the 100 years war in which the English apparently thrashed the French
Maginot Line = a line of fortification set up by the French to either stop the Germans or direct their advance during WWII. It didn't work.
Ben says the names we're not ment to anger or provoke the French, they were just for fun. I don't buy that. Similar to "Just Do It", it seems pretty clearly a great big F U to the French.
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