|
|
Post by jetjackson on Mar 24, 2018 17:46:21 GMT -7
Where would it be? What do you think the top places in the world to live are for a climbing lifestyle?
I'm thinking from the perspective of someone who works full time, has a family, potentially with children in school;
Denver, USA
Pros - huge climbing community, world class, day trip accessible crags, outdoor lifestyle - accessible snow sports
Cons - quality of employment opportunities limited to a few industries, seasonality of climbing
Barcelona, Spain
Pros - strong climbing community, world class day to weekend trip accessible crags, long climbing seasons, beach/surf access
Cons - limited employment opps for non-Spanish speakers.
Gap, France
Pros - Ceuse and Briancon areas, accessible snow sports, relatively low cost of living.
Cons - Living in France can be isolating - even if you speak French. Employment opps limited if you don't speak French.
Sydney, Australia
Pros - world class climbing, long climbing seasons, weekend accessible crags of different types (mountain sandstone, ocean cliffs etc.)
Cons - High cost of living, long distance to international climbing destinations, smaller climbing community
|
|
|
|
Post by MarkAnderson on Mar 24, 2018 19:25:22 GMT -7
Denver does not have world class climbing. We have a wide variety and copious amounts of bad-to-mediocre climbing. For example I would say the climbing around Sydney is way better than what we have here, but much less varied. However, I would put "seasonality" in the Pro column. It's actually pretty easy to climb year round her within an hour's drive.
|
|
|
|
Post by aikibujin on Mar 24, 2018 19:47:17 GMT -7
Denver, USA Pros - huge climbing community, world class, day trip accessible crags, outdoor lifestyle - accessible snow sports Cons - quality of employment opportunities limited to a few industries, seasonality of climbing A couple of thoughts on Denver since I live here. Having a big climbing community can be a double-edged sword. Crags are getting super crowded, especially at places with high concentration of moderates. You can get away from the crowds by climbing harder or hike further, but the impact of the sport's popularity can still be felt when places (like Clear Creek) start to form fix hardware review committees. "World class" is quite subjective. I define it by asking myself the question, would I fly all the way across the world just to climb at this place? By that definition, nothing in the Denver area (with the possible exception of the Diamond on Longs Peak) is what I would consider world-class. Rifle can possibly be world-class, I don't know since I've never climbed there... what?! Why?! Because it's not exactly day-trip accessible from Denver. What Denver lacks in quality, it kind of makes up in quantity. By that I mean there is a wide range of rock types in the Denver area. Limestone, granite, sandstone, basalt, schist, gneiss, maybe more. Climbing on different types of rock really helps with route-reading and develop different technique. As far as "seasonality of climbing" goes, that depends a little on your tolerance to cold. Most climbers in the Denver area probably retreat to the gym in winter, but if you don't mind the cold, you can climb outside every month of the year. Even in winter, there are clear days when the temperature is climbable at sunny crags. |
|
|
|
Post by aikibujin on Mar 24, 2018 19:48:30 GMT -7
Damn. Mark said in a couple of sentences what took me half an hour to type.
I agree about Sydney too. The Blue Mountains are definitely world class. But I remember everything around Sydney is sandstone, and I was not too impressed with the seacliffs around Sydney. Everything was sandy and quite scary.
|
|
|
|
Post by jrblack on Mar 24, 2018 20:27:00 GMT -7
You wouldn't consider Eldo world class? I think for its history it surely is... maybe objectively it's just a choss pile.  |
|
|
|
Post by jrblack on Mar 24, 2018 20:32:14 GMT -7
How about Sacramento, CA?
You have Pinnacles in the winter (ok, chossy), and Jailhouse is usually pretty good in winter. In summer, Tahoe has a lot of climbing, Yosemite is an easily-doable weekend trip. Alex Honnold and Beth Rodden both grew up there.
Cons: Hot summers, urban blight, cost of living.
|
|
|
|
Post by erick on Mar 24, 2018 21:52:44 GMT -7
If you are saying "ANY" place in the world then the options are extremely broad. I feel like whenever people make lists like these some qualifiers need to be in place. Is city size important, does the type of climbing matter, season, employment opportunities. Technically isn't yosemite village a "city" does it count? From all the places I have actually been to my pick would probably be Squamish, Lander, Bend, Vegas, Bishop, or Leavenworth where I actually live now. In Europe I'm sure there are better places but I have not traveled there enough to know where I would actually enjoy living.
|
|
|
|
Post by jetjackson on Mar 24, 2018 22:06:44 GMT -7
True, I guess I was intending to be very broad, but I was hoping to get the perspective of this forum, rather than say r/climbing - because climbers here share more in common with me in terms of approach/aspirations regarding climbing.
It is subjective, I might try and put together a bit of a set of criteria and then mark off cities against said criteria. Once I've done that I could put together a spreadsheet where you could answer questions based on your own preferences, which could weight the city by city scoring, and then output a ranking of cities based on your criteria.
What criteria would you include?
- employment opportunities
- cost of living
- livability? (could use another ranking system to source this data)
- quantity of climbing
- style of climbing
- accessibility of climbing
- ease of travelling from location to other world class locations
- seasonality/weather - number of days within premo climbing range? High of 45-65 and dry?
Erick - to answer your question - yes, Yosemite would count, but employment opps there - I can't imagine they would be great, so maybe that's a better place for the self funded retiree, or the young gap year or trust fund climber? I could easily create a ranking system on that basis.
|
|
|
|
Post by Chris W on Mar 25, 2018 3:50:07 GMT -7
Well... I guess I've only climbed locally here in south central PA, the Red and the New. The reason I live here is my family (primarily my wife), since my family is the only thing more important than my climbing.
It would be AWESOME to live at the NRG in Fayetteville WV, but the humidity and heat are crappy. I love the rock there.
The Red down in Kentucky is good, but it's a bit crowded and I like the rock at the New better. There's less local infrastructure there than there is at the New, though Lexington is only about an hour away for city folk...
I would LOVE to check out Lander Wyoming. That's my dream destination. Maybe when all the kids outgrow naps I'll save enough money to take us there. Again though, I live in PA for the family, and at least I have a good job and my barn to train in.
|
|
|
|
Post by MarkAnderson on Mar 25, 2018 7:24:14 GMT -7
You wouldn't consider Eldo world class? I think for its history it surely is... maybe objectively it's just a choss pile. Not this again!  There are mountains of shit crags around the globe that are historically significant. That doesn't make them good.
Anyway, I'll grant you Eldo is world class in the 5.6-5.8 grades. The routes get exponentially worse the harder they get. It's a nice place to go for a scramble, but it hasn't been relevant to performance rock climbing since Jerry Moffatt hiked Genesis and Psycho in a weekend.
|
|
|
|
Post by MarkAnderson on Mar 25, 2018 7:25:01 GMT -7
How about Sacramento, CA? You have Pinnacles in the winter (ok, chossy), and Jailhouse is usually pretty good in winter. In summer, Tahoe has a lot of climbing, Yosemite is an easily-doable weekend trip. Alex Honnold and Beth Rodden both grew up there. Cons: Hot summers, urban blight, cost of living. Haha, good one. |
|
|
|
Post by MarkAnderson on Mar 25, 2018 7:54:41 GMT -7
The crux seems to be finding good conditions in both summer and winter. It will depend a lot on how far you're willing to travel to find "good" conditions (and your tolerance for conditions). Here are some others to consider:
Innsbruck - tons of crags around, awesome in the late Spring thru Fall, not sure about winter.
Marseilles/Avignon/Orange - Anywhere around here really, depending on your other criteria. There are lifetimes of world class crags you've never heard of around Provence, and could be promising for year-round climbing. I know Ceuse is "good" in the summer, though far, but St Leger is also reportedly good most of the summer and much closer. There are few better places in the winter.
Toulouse or somewhere else near the Spanish border - Never been here, but I know there is a lot of good Fall/winter/Spring climbing both in France and across the border in Spain (assuming you can get there. In the summer presumably you can climb in the Pyrennes?
Italy - not sure exactly which cities would be best, but something in Italy has got to be in contention. So much great climbing around. Maybe Milan or similar, where you can split time between the Alps and the Med depending on the season.
Munich - Close to the Frankenjura, which is doable in winter(?) but probably pretty rainy? Great in Spring/Fall and parts of summer? Close-ish to many good "summer" crags near or in Austria. Would be an awesome place to live.
Somewhere in Croatia/Slovenia - Never been, but apparently good winter climbing along the Adriatic coast, good Fall/Spring in Slovenia, and close enough to the Alps/Dolomites to enjoy summer.
|
|
|
|
Post by cozisco on Mar 25, 2018 12:53:59 GMT -7
Seems like a couple of those lists are sport climbing-centric. In terms of crack climbing, I think most people would agree that Indian Creek is world class.... but does that mean you'd have to include Grand Junction?? I guess then you'd have Rifle, Deep Creek, Indy Pass in the summer. The weather in Vancouver/Squamish is too rainy and I'm not sure there's any city close enough to Yosemite to qualify. In terms of a winter-only city, I've always thought Vegas would be sweet because not only do you have Red Rocks, but the city is also surrounded by an abundance of uplifted limestone, most of which results in steep, underdeveloped hard sport climbs. The potential to bolt new lines is a huge plus for me. Marseilles/Avignon/Orange - Anywhere around here really, depending on your other criteria. There are lifetimes of world class crags you've never heard of around Provence, and could be promising for year-round climbing. I know Ceuse is "good" in the summer, though far, but St Leger is also reportedly good most of the summer and much closer. There are few better places in the winter. I think this would be my overall winner. Marseilles is too big of a city for me, but Aix-en-Provence/Arles/Avignon have loads of nearby sport climbing in the winter then Ceuse, St Leger and les Calanques are great in the summer. Plus, it's hard to beat the laidback lifestyle in southern France. |
|
|
|
Post by MarkAnderson on Mar 25, 2018 18:23:12 GMT -7
I agree the Moab region is world class, and I'd go further to say that the western US in general might be the prime location in the world for trad climbing when you consider Yosemite, Zion, Red Rocks and the Sierras (Australia, Chamonix, Dresden, Dolomites might be some other contenders?)
My list is absolutely sport-centric, no question. But some of those places have lots of trad around as well, especially those near the alps. Vegas is interesting, but I think the summers would be really rough, and the city itself is a fucking hole IMO.
|
|
|
|
Post by jetjackson on Mar 25, 2018 18:36:32 GMT -7
I put down Gap, for it's proximity to Ceuse, but I guess you could really broaden that out to the region of Provence. Actually, my wife lived in Avignon for 6 months, and I spent a bit of time there - I was living in the North of Spain near Girona. I didn't climb at the time, but I've always liked the idea of living in that region. Climbing aside, it's a pretty amazing part of the world.
I'll add all these prospective places to the spreadsheet and get to work on it over the coming weeks.
|
|
There are mountains of shit crags around the globe that are historically significant. That doesn't make them good.