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Post by jrblack on Nov 24, 2017 8:58:50 GMT -7
How do you aid up the route? I don't know the route well at all, so maybe you can pull on a bolt to get the next one (that requires that the bolts are VERY close together)? Or maybe you use a stick clip?
Do you find the route mentally challenging at all? The exposure is pretty good on that thing!
Are there any spots where you don't like the fall on lead?
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Post by aikibujin on Nov 24, 2017 21:00:44 GMT -7
Today was my day 5 on SY. Just like the previous couple of days, we climbed at a different area first before dropping by SY so I can put in one session on it. I warmed up by trying to redpoint Wet Dream at Wall of the 90s, which was definitely a bit overconfident. I don't know how you can get so pumped on a slab, but I managed to get myself flash pumped on the slab/arete halfway up the route, and hung all over the place like an overstuffed turkey.
By the time we made it to SY I already felt pretty worked. I tried to link the first section (the overhang boulder problem) again, but didn't even get to my high point last time. I almost wanted to get lowered, but since I dragged my belayer all the way out there, I decided to at least try to refine my beta in the middle and the top section. I couldn't figure out how to use a heel at the first rest like Jon suggested. It could be a flexibility issue, maybe it's time to get back to yoga class. I did try different foot sequence for the middle section, and found a sequence that seems to work best out of everything I've tried so far.
The top section felt as hard as ever. I did manage to find a different body position that avoided one of the glassy polished footholds, that's progress. So even though I was pretty tired, it was still a fairly productive day.
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Post by aikibujin on Nov 24, 2017 21:16:28 GMT -7
How do you aid up the route? I don't know the route well at all, so maybe you can pull on a bolt to get the next one (that requires that the bolts are VERY close together)? Or maybe you use a stick clip? Do you find the route mentally challenging at all? The exposure is pretty good on that thing! Are there any spots where you don't like the fall on lead? The bolts are fairly close together, and they all have perma-draws. So I can pretty much pull on the perma-draws to aid my way up. There is only one section I cannot aid (pulling over the first roof), but I have the moves pretty dialed and can do it fresh off a hang. SY mostly climbs in a dihedral, so I don't really feel exposed because I have rocks around me. I usually get scared on slabs and aretes (or in the case of Wet Dream, an arete on a slab... talk about a total mind-f). I think the biggest mental challenge for me will be skipping the second to the last bolt. The moves above it are still pretty desperate and pumpy, if I peel off it will be a pretty big ride. The fall is clean, but mentally it will be hard. Everywhere else on the route the falls are clean, so I'm not too worried. Except clipping the third bolt, the clipping position is strenuous, and blowing the clip with rope out will most likely see me hitting the starting ledge (I'm definitely not interested in testing that theory). While working the start I've been pre-clipping the third bolt, lowering back to the ledge, and start from the beginning. When I do start making full-on redpoint burns, I'll either have to extend the third bolt so I don't have to pull as much rope up, or just pre-clip it like I've been doing.
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Post by scojo on Nov 26, 2017 17:49:08 GMT -7
I'm curious what your overall strategy is for this project. Seems like your strategy is: get all the beta extremely well dialed -> link the hardest sections -> go for the redpoint.
How many "burns" are you averaging each day you get out? I usually try to get 3 or 4 burns/redpoint attempts if it's a short day (but this depends on the nature of the route).
For my projects so far, I've always gone for the redpoint attempt (especially on the first try of the day), even if I have to hang the draws first. The other day, I surprised myself when I sent on the first go of the day, having to hang the draws. If I fall, I'll rest, then work on whatever part of the route needs dialing.
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Post by aikibujin on Nov 27, 2017 9:03:39 GMT -7
Yesterday was my day 6 on SY. The high in Denver was close to 70 degrees (this is the end of November?!), so initially I wasn’t sure if I wanted to put in another session on SY. I decided the primary goal for the day was to redpoint Wet Dream (12a) at Wall of the 90s, and if I feel up for it, go by SY for one session at the end of the day.
I did two burns on Wet Dream, the first was to warm up (not making the mistake of trying to warm up and redpoint at the same time again) and hang the draws. Yet I fell off the crux move on Wet Dream fresh off a hang, which got me a little worried that I can’t even meet my primary goal. However, on the redpoint burn I felt solid on the route, having the draws already hung and properly warmed up really made a big difference. With my primary goal met and feeling pretty good, I decided to give SY one burn to link more moves. I made no progress on the bottom boulder problem, still falling at the gaston move under the roof. This section is proving to be harder to link than I first thought. The clip before the gaston to the long sling below the roof was sapping a lot of my energy. If you’re coming into the sequence by slapping LH to the rail from the RH undercling, match RH on the rail, bring RF to a good edge on the roof, hang straight arm from the LH and you’re in the clipping position. But since I do a crossover RH dyno, my feet cut and I have to bring my RF to a higher smaller foothold (something I use later for the drop knee), match LH to the rail, stab my LF to the good edge (doing front levers helped here), match RF on the good edge, and then drop my body lower so I can hang straight arm from LH to clip. That’s three extra foot moves I have to do just to get into the clipping position. When I pulled back on the wall off a hang, I experimented with keeping my RF on the higher crappier foothold, LF on the good edge, but then turning my right knee and brace it against my left leg, getting almost a knee bar between the bad foothold and my left leg. That seemed to offer enough stability to release my RH from the rail, so I will try to clip from that position next time. If it works, it will save me two extra foot movements.
The middle section went really well. I started right below the roof, pulled into the first rest (which is not as restful if your legs are short), shook out a little, then climbed to the next rest (which is also not as restful as I had hoped). The head jam / head scum beta turned out to harder for me, maybe due to a lack of height, but I can barely tough my head to the roof. I may need to find higher footholds in order to use the head jam.
I then tried the upper section twice, figuring out another piece of micro beta that allowed me to completely skip a shiny polished foothold that I have been complaining about. A lot of the insecurity I felt in the upper section was due to the polished footholds. I still have to use a few of them, but I’m able to skip the worst of them now, so this is a key piece of micro beta that gave me a lot more confidence. With this piece of beta in hand, I made the longest link yet, climbing 6 out of the 8 moves all the way to the hero jug at the top.
At this rate, as soon as I link the bottom boulder problem, I will be able to two-hang or even one-hang this route, which means it will be full on redpoint time!
Video from the day's session. Yes, it was "shirtless" hot! photos.app.goo.gl/LlcIFkU8iz4voB1c2
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Post by aikibujin on Nov 27, 2017 10:49:23 GMT -7
I'm curious what your overall strategy is for this project. Seems like your strategy is: get all the beta extremely well dialed -> link the hardest sections -> go for the redpoint. How many "burns" are you averaging each day you get out? I usually try to get 3 or 4 burns/redpoint attempts if it's a short day (but this depends on the nature of the route). For my projects so far, I've always gone for the redpoint attempt (especially on the first try of the day), even if I have to hang the draws first. The other day, I surprised myself when I sent on the first go of the day, having to hang the draws. If I fall, I'll rest, then work on whatever part of the route needs dialing. You nailed my strategy. I see SY as my first long-term project, so I approached it a little differently from all my other projects. My plan is not to work on it with exclusion of everything else, which is how I’ve approached projects in the past. For SY I decided to work it concurrently with some short-term projects, for example: Wet Dream, Hey Good Lookin’, Y2K, maybe Ten Digit. So except the first day I got on SY when I put in three rather short sessions on it, the rest of the days I’ve only put in one or at most two sessions on SY. So in 6 days I’ve put in 9 sessions on SY. I used to go at a project in a similar approach as yours: try hard first, and if I fall off, work that section until I got it, lower off, and repeat. I think this approach works best for routes close to or slightly above your max onsight grade. But for stuff at your max redpoint grade or even above it (in the case of SY), it may not be the most time efficient way to work the project. I really learned this from Mark, after he saw the way I was trying to brute force my way from the ground up on a project, and told me that it’s a more energy efficient to work out the moves first, before going all out and try hard. Before he mentioned that, I never even pulled up on a draw to feel and search for holds above me. For SY, my strategy was to: 1. Do the individual moves or short sequences so I know it’s even possible. (this step is done) 2. Start linking longer sequences, and try to work out the most efficient sequence. (which is the step I’m on right now) 3. Once I get the route to one or two hangs, try hard and go for the redpoint. SY was pretty hard for me right off the ground. On my first day, very first session, I had trouble even getting to the undercling (third move off the ground). Took me a couple of tries to get that move, then two moves later was the dyno which was another showstopper that took many tries to figure out. So the very first session I worked out six moves on the route. The second session I pulled pass the first six moves, and worked out the gaston to the clipping jug at the lip, six more moves. The third session I kind of worked out the middle section, but the sequence was not very efficient. Because the moves are hard and I was very inefficient especially in the beginning, the sessions were short and I can’t really do too many of them before I’m tired. If I do more burns at that point I feel I will just be flailing around, not gaining anything, and digging myself deep into a recovery hole. As I get more familiar and efficient with the moves and linking longer sections, I may start putting more burns on it. When it comes time for full on redpoint tries, I may be able to put in two or three solid attempts per day.
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Post by jrblack on Nov 27, 2017 22:29:51 GMT -7
This is really cool to watch.
All my projects have fallen into two categories (1) I could do all the moves on the first try, (2) there were one or moves I couldn't do.
All the climbs in (1), I did within 5-10 tries. All those in (2) I never did. So it's cool to see you in category (2) making steady progress!!
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Post by aikibujin on Dec 1, 2017 18:25:59 GMT -7
Normally I only climb once a week. But the weather this week is cooler than last week, I decided to take a day off from work to climb, so I had two days on SY this week. Day 7 (Wednesday): The goal today was to hopefully link the bottom section of SY, and link more moves at the top. I warmed up by hangdogging Y2K at Wall of the 90s to check out the moves, then went over to New River to get on SY. Unfortunately, I made no progress on the boulder problem at the start. Even though I can now clip the sling on the roof from the higher footholds by bracing my right knee against my left knee in a pseudo kneebar (a new piece of micro beta I worked out during my last session. Stacked kneebar? Braced drop knee? Is there even a term for this move?), I still fell on the gaston. This was frustrating because it was the third session I've made no progress on the bottom section, and I felt like mentally I'm starting to expect to fall off at the gaston move now. Fresh off a dog I can always do the move, so ended up repeating the move 4 times in a row, just to get it in my mind that I can do the move, even while carrying a little bit of fatigue. I then lowered back to the start, rested a little, and tried to link the bottom section... and promptly fell off at the gaston again. Urgh! I tried to climb higher to work on the top, but fell off just a couple of moves later (where I don't normally fall). I knew I was totally beat so I lowered off. I thought about calling it a day, but based on Mark's advice I decided to rest 45 minutes and go for another burn. This time I fell even lower at the start, at the RH dyno move. Oh no! I know it would be unproductive to work the bottom any further, so I continued higher to work the top section. The top went a lot better than I expected. I figured out the somewhat hands-free rest, and started climbing into the top section from the rest. Although I was not able to link the entire top section, I've been able to get to the top jug by starting lower at the top section. Progress! Today's video: photos.app.goo.gl/0542augolOiu4BI52Day 8 (Friday): I didn't warm up at Wall of the 90s today, so the plan was to aid up to the top section first (which will serve as the warmup) and hopefully link it from the rest to the anchor, then come back down to work on the start. The top section went really well this time (probably because I was relatively fresh). I linked the moves from the rest all the way to the anchor, which I've never done before. I rested, then linked the top section again. The top section has taken less time than I expected to link after I figured out all the moves. I lowered off, rested half an hour, and started working at the bottom section. Since I haven't been able to link the bottom section from ground up, I decided to go up to the third bolt first and start from the undercling to the RH dyno move. The idea was if I can do the gaston starting from the dyno move, then I will have a better chance of linking the bottom section from the start. I did the dyno, clipped, got my high dropknee, hit the gaston, held it... and got the LH crossover move! Excited, I lowered off to the ledge, rested a little, and tried it from the start with the sling pre-clipped. I got the dyno, went straight into the high dropknee, gaston, hold it, cross LH! Finally, I linked the gaston from the ground! After that I just kept on climbing to see how high I can get. Got to the first rest, shook out as long as my left knee would allow, got to the second rest, shook out as long as my calves would allow, then fired right into the top section. I fell four moves into the top section, at the first LH deadpoint to the sidepull pinch when my left foot slipped, but I was super psyched. This was my best highpoint on this route so far, and I was six moves away from the anchor! At this rate, redpointing this mega project is not as far away as I think. Plan forward? Try hard, and start full-on redpoint attempts! Today's video: photos.app.goo.gl/lyLLvaGxHxKxRoHl1
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Post by aikibujin on Dec 1, 2017 22:09:20 GMT -7
This is really cool to watch. All my projects have fallen into two categories (1) I could do all the moves on the first try, (2) there were one or moves I couldn't do. All the climbs in (1), I did within 5-10 tries. All those in (2) I never did. So it's cool to see you in category (2) making steady progress!! I think you're definitely capable of projecting harder. If you can do all the moves on the first try, then that's a pretty easy route for you, probably no more than two grades harder than your hardest onsight. Category (2) is a little tricky because it is certainly possible to encounter moves you can't do. I look at the progress I'm making, if at some point I can't make progress anywhere on the route, then it's too hard for me. I'll have to get stronger and come back.
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Post by jrblack on Dec 5, 2017 0:09:23 GMT -7
Great progress!
Although that top section does not look like a gimme. But it seems like you're resting pretty well in a couple of those stems. Maybe enough to get back to enough strength to finish out those top powerful moves?!
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Post by jonfrisby on Dec 5, 2017 8:10:30 GMT -7
Great progress! Although that top section does not look like a gimme. But it seems like you're resting pretty well in a couple of those stems. Maybe enough to get back to enough strength to finish out those top powerful moves?! There's a no hands before the last crux that he's sort of using. It's not very comfortable so not a complete rest, but quite good.
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Post by aikibujin on Dec 5, 2017 9:28:21 GMT -7
Great progress! Although that top section does not look like a gimme. But it seems like you're resting pretty well in a couple of those stems. Maybe enough to get back to enough strength to finish out those top powerful moves?! Right, linking the top section isn’t exactly easy. While none of the single move is very hard, for me most of them have to be done dynamically, so it gets harder and harder as the moves stack up. Also, I’ve complained more than once that the footholds up there are very polished, I have to be precise with my footwork. As I get more fatigued and start to lose coordination, I’m more likely to slip off a foothold. About 50% of the time when I fall from the top section was due to a foot slip. So while the gaston move under the roof at the beginning of the route is the hardest single move for me, the top section is going to be the redpoint crux. The key to redpoint is to rest and recover enough in the middle section. The first rest above the initial roof is not great. I have to stem pretty far out and twist my body into the dihedral in order to unweigh my arms. It is quite painful on my left knee so I can’t stay there very long. The second rest is better. The footholds are closer to my body, and like Jon mentioned, I can press my head and shoulder into the small roof and go hands free. However, because I have to push hard with my toes to maintain enough pressure on the roof and not fall out of the rest, my calves and core get fatigued while my arms get a rest. So it’s a balance act. I hope that as I make more attempts I will get better at utilizing these rests.
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Post by jrblack on Dec 5, 2017 15:29:04 GMT -7
Is it time to start working the route top-down now? Maybe try to send it from the halfway to the top? If you get that super dialed, you might be able to execute even after the gaston section works you over.
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Post by aikibujin on Dec 5, 2017 17:04:39 GMT -7
Is it time to start working the route top-down now? Maybe try to send it from the halfway to the top? If you get that super dialed, you might be able to execute even after the gaston section works you over. I have sent the route from a couple moves below the top rest, so I’ve got the top section pretty dialed. At this point my plan is to just go for full-on redpoint attempts, and make sure I try really hard near the top. I can’t think of any moves at the top I can refine and tweak, so I just need to commit and execute the moves. Mark said that often training for endurance is just to learn to climb while pumped. I’ve been doing some endurance work on the Rock Castle to get used to climbing through the pain and make sure I don’t give up mentally before my forearms actually fail. We will see how it goes this weekend!
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Post by jonfrisby on Dec 6, 2017 9:27:21 GMT -7
hmm, I thought the top was harder than the bottom
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