Setting appropriate LBC intensity, work and rest times

[Chris W]

1) Is a duty cycle of 1:3 too much rest for a LBC?
2) If I can only complete the first set with a duty cycle of 1:2, is my circuit too hard?

I've redesigned my LBC to try to send my project this fall. The hard part is at the end, and it involves 5 bolts of hard continuous moves with little to no chance to rest until the (awesomely great) shake before the final throw to the anchors. Total of 22ish hand moves. After the first crux, there is a good left hand hold, clip, no good right hand hold. Second crux ends in good right hand hold to clip, no good left. After the third crux, great shake for each hand before the final throw to the anchors. The Streak (13a?) was my project in the spring, and my LBC was 3 min long with lots of large jugs to downclimb and shake out and rest. That was before I had been on the route. Now that I know the route, I have chanced the LBC:

-Total time set to 1:30 (cut in half), 3 boulder problems and two downclimbs. If I'm moving quickly without fumbling on the downclimb, I can just make the full circuit in 1:30. 
-Accurately reproduces the pump I feel on the route. It's not a painful, burning pump, but more of a "Why won't my fingers open and latch?" type of pump.
-The whole circuit is more brutal, with the opening boulder problem the hardest, and no jugs at all on the circuit. The downclimbs are pretty hard. 

So far, 2 sessions into the PE phase, I've been able to complete the first set of my LBC with a duty cycle of 1:2, but haven't completed the full circuit on any of the subsequent sets. Should I change the circuit to make it easier?

[Lundy]

If you think it's a pretty accurate reflection of your goal route, I'd keep it and work up to it.

Also, was thinking about trying to get a day trip up there some day this fall (I'm in DC) to jump on that climb. Any chance you'd be free some random weekday? And can you still climb there in November, or does it get too cold or wet too quickly?

[Chris W]

I just finished putting nice shiny new permadraws on The Streak. November will likely be beautiful, nice and cool. May get too cold for a lot of folks, but I like it pretty cold. The climb is in shade all day, except a couple hours after Dawn. I'll be free most Tuesdays and in the morning every other week until noon. I work a lot of weekends. November is iffy thought, because baby number 4 is due on Thanksgiving, so I won't want to stray far the closer we get.

[jonfrisby]

Looks like a sweet route. I will try to make it out there soon to give it a try!

[MarkAnderson]

It’s too hard. If you can’t complete most of the sets, you aren’t going to get much training benefit. The best solution is to make it easier by just tweaking a few holds, then as you get stronger on it you can tweak it back to the way it was.

I’ve used 4:00 rest for a 95-sec set, which is around 1:2.5. I think 1:3 would be an ok place to start, but if you tweak the route you might be able to start at 1:2.

[Chris W]

OK, so quick update. I did a session yesterday with a duty cycle of 1:3. I completed the first and second sets, fell on the third set on the last hard throw with 4 seconds left, fourth and fifth set didn't manage to get to the start of the last boulder problem. Still too hard?

I can try changing the down climb to the third problem to larger holds and possibly the start of the third problem to a larger hold, but this would probably translate to using jugs for the downclimb. The second (final) downclimb seems to sap the strength from me. It's a bit frustrating, because I like to have this ironed out before the PE phase, not during. I guess that's all just part of the process.

I'm also frustrated because my climbing partner had to bail yesterday and I didn't get to climb.

[tetrault]

Having your own training space is worththe frustration. Imagine what you would be limited to in a commercial gym...

[aikibujin]

Sept 27, 2017 18:45:57 GMT -7 tetrault said:

Having your own training space is worththe frustration. Imagine what you would be limited to in a commercial gym...

It's like you're mocking me (I know you're not)... I was going to climb outside today, and was really looking forward to the cooler temperatures this week. Except it rained. All day. So I ended up in a climbing gym, and of course since it's raining, everyone and their grandmother were in the gym as well. It was pretty depressing, definitely a situation that called for some ice cream.

[MarkAnderson]

Still too hard. At a 1:3 duty cycle I would think you should be able to complete 3 sets and 75% or more of the 4th set on your 1st workout. If I'm reading correctly yesterday was at least your 3rd workout? For comparison, by my 3rd workout last Fall I was using a slightly better than 1:1 duty cycle (~2:15-2:30 work to 2:00 rest) and sending the first 3 sets and 7/8th of the 4th set. Maybe that's a bit extreme since I was preparing to send very early in my performance phase, but still, that's significantly different than what you're experiencing.

If you want the best of both worlds you can stick with your current circuit for the first two sets and then use the easier downclimb for your 3rd and 4th sets. Personally I would use the easier downclimb on every set. It's not supposed to be hard until the latter half of the workout. That's where you make your money. To re-iterate, if you aren't able to complete the vast majority of the workout, then your body will not receive the stimulus it needs to adapt. It's much better to ensure you complete the workout, even if its too easy, then get shut down before you have the opportunity to get pumped.

[Chris W]

OK, sounds good. I'll change the second down climb at least, as well as the starting hold of the third problem, to more juggy holds. I'll potentially set some easier holds on the first down climb as well.

1) To climb this in 90 seconds, I'm moving pretty fast. Good idea, or should I slow it down to closer to my speed on the rock?
2) Should your LBC be as hard as your project, or easier, and if easier, how much easier?

I suppose that if you could climb a circuit as hard as Shadowboxing in your barn, you wouldn't need to train for it, so I guess it should be easier.

I really appreciate the feedback. I'm really pushing some new boundaries to train for this climb, and this is the hardest LBC I've set, but it looks like I've overdone it a bit. Makes me wonder if the climb is outside of my limit right now, but I'm still jumping to try it (especially now that I gave it new draws).

[MarkAnderson]

Yes, it should be easier than your project. You’re not training to send your project 4 times in a row with a short rest, you just need to send it once. If the circuit is as hard as your project, and you can finish it, stop training and go send it!

I think you should try to slow yourself down a bit. It sounds like you’re already using TUT rather than move count to define the length, which is good, but there is still a tendency to race at an unnatural pace that you can’t match on the rock. Make a conscious point to slow yourself down, especially on the latter laps, when you’re more stressed and frantic.

[Chris W]

Whenever I send this thing, I'm going to go on a massive cookie binge.

[Chris W]

And... I guess it's still too hard. I changed the down-climbs by changing most of the holds to jugs. Did a session with a duty cycle 1:2 today, completed the first three sets, though barely, then the 4th set off with 40 seconds left (out of 90 seconds) and the fifth didn't even finish the first boulder problem!

[MarkAnderson]

That's not terrible. You ought to fail somewhere in the 4th set, and going from a duty cycle of 1:3 to 1:2 is a huge jump in difficulty. I typically drop the rest 30 seconds between workouts (which generally equates to dropping 30 seconds each week), whereas you presumably dropped your rest time ~90 seconds in one week? It sounds like the circuit is good the way it is.

[Chris W]

Fantastic, thanks for the feedback. I don't really feel "worked" right now, so I'm hoping it will have the desired effect. I'm a bit gun shy right now though, since my oldest daughter now has a fever. Holding my breath to see if (when) the other kids get it and praying I stay healthy.