"slow" week in the end of each phase

[tiago]

Hello,

In recent conversations with some friends about training, I realised that it is somewhat a common procedure to end a mesocycle of four weeks (in the RCTM manual, it would be something like ending a phase) with a lighter week - the fourth - of a little less effort/intensity/volume (depending on the phase). I don't know if it makes sense to do that during every phase of the RockProdigy method (strenght phase comes to mind) but I would like to know if anyone experimented with this. Maybe during a long performance phase it would make more sense?

Tiago

[jessebruni]

I've been doing this for a little while. Basically a deload week. I've been doing them every 5 weeks, but I'm starting to wonder if it might make sense to make them even more frequent like every 3 or 4 weeks.

[tiago]

Apr 13, 2016 13:52:00 GMT -7 jessebruni said:

I've been doing this for a little while. Basically a deload week. I've been doing them every 5 weeks, but I'm starting to wonder if it might make sense to make them even more frequent like every 3 or 4 weeks.

And does that deload week coincide with the end of each phase of the RP method?

[Jon]

I use a deload week as well every 4th week, however my plan is a little different than the standard RCTM plan. As an aging (over 35) athlete, I find that I can more easily push my body hard for 3 weeks, deload a bit in the 4th week to recover and then change focus to the next phase. All of my phases are 4 weeks in length, but I use a bit more block periodization in my plan. My deload week usually consists of one to two harder workouts near the beginning of the week and at least 3-4 days in a row off for rest/recovery at the end of the week. I have found this helps with injury prevention and better gauging when I will likely feel strong vs. feeling tired. I now almost always feel my best the second week of a phase and my worst at the end of the 3rd week.

[jessebruni]

Apr 14, 2016 2:49:37 GMT -7 tiago said:

Apr 13, 2016 13:52:00 GMT -7 jessebruni said:

I've been doing this for a little while. Basically a deload week. I've been doing them every 5 weeks, but I'm starting to wonder if it might make sense to make them even more frequent like every 3 or 4 weeks.

And does that deload week coincide with the end of each phase of the RP method?

As some may have surmised by my lack of post volume over the past year, I haven't been using the RP method in a while. The current plan I'm using is a conjugate training program that I wrote for myself, though a lot is inspired by the RP program.

[Lundy]

Apr 14, 2016 11:11:48 GMT -7 jessebruni said:

Apr 14, 2016 2:49:37 GMT -7 tiago said:

Care to share some details? I'm also doing something similar, based on the RP program, so would love to compare notes...

[tiago]

So, what would be a deloading week? Given that the RPTM gives a lot of emphasys to intensity, it doesn't make sense to decrease the intensity of training, does it? (like adding less weight in the last workout of the hangboard cycle or trying less difficult boulder problems).

So, for me that would leave a lighter week in terms of the number of sessions, which would be equivalent to a week with more rest days. What do you think?

[jessebruni]

So, for me the RCTM was my first real introduction to "training", and while I believe it's a good program I do feel that ultimately, it's suited better to sport climbers than boulderers or roped boulderers like myself. More importantly than that, I learned so much by reading the RCTM and participating on this forum that I felt the next step in learning how to be a better, stronger, climber was to see what other people had to say on the subject and try it out.

So, it's not like I abandoned the RPTP and jumped in bed with some other program, I've been trying a lot of different methods, and at this point I'm combining several in order to suit my purposes. So here are my thoughts:

1.) Finger strength should be trained year round. My fingers would always get insanely strong during the hangboard phase of the RPTP, but then after 3 months of different phases where I was doing zero hangboarding I felt like my finger strength was back to square one by the start of the next hangboard phase. I'm sure this is less a fault of semi-linear periodization and more a fault of my own for not picking appropriate limit bouldering problems during the power phase. However, the combination of the power endurance phase, performance phase, and rest phase, is a long enough period of time without maximal finger work that I think anyone would see a drop in finger strength and, in my opinion, that is an unnecessary drop.

2.) I haven't had a REAL sport climbing trip since November 2014. Last year (2015), I used my vacation days going to relatives weddings (a week off, got 1 climbing day in Rumney), going on skiing trips (1 week off, got 3 hours in clear creek canyon for bouldering), and miscellaneous days off (got a few days to boulder in HCR and Hueco Tanks). This year I used all 3 weeks vacation time to go on my honeymoon in Thailand, and while I good a good number of climbing mornings (never a full day), a good portion of our time was spent doing non-climbing honeymoon things. So for me, for the last 2 years, training for months on end to peak for a week or more of crushing just doesn't make sense because I won't have that much time available to dedicate to crushing. So it makes more sense for me to just plug away at getting stronger and not worry so much about trying to create performance peaks.

To answer the question about deloading: I found through trial and error that I can push my body for about 4 weeks before I start to see significant declines in my ability to maintain my training load and I might even end up just getting sick due to a weakened immune system. Doing a deload week allows my body some time to rest and reset so I can not only resume training, but increase the intensity. For me the deloading week is a rest weak where I basically replace my training days with "climb for fun" days, and make a conscious effort to not push myself very hard. I just let my body rest. I don't get very scientific about reducing my weight to 50% or whatever, but I will still do a lot of the exercises I normally do, I just make them easier than when I'm training. If I normally deadlift 265 I'll deadlift 150 or something like that. Instead of trying to send V8's I'll try to send V5's.

Anyway, all that to say, I've learned a lot from the RCTM, I have learned a lot from other sources. Ultimately I'd like to be knowledgeable enough to settle on a program of my own design that is perfectly suited for my needs, and be confident that it is the best program for me. I'm not there yet, but I'm closer than I was 2 years ago.

[alexandra]

Hi Jesse, I am just curious since you mentioned that you mostly boulder (and so do I). Have you tried the RPTP as described in the bouldering chapter? I.e. one month hang board, one month power, perform, repeat? If so, how would you compare that to what you are doing now? In particular, is there any chance you can describe your training protocol in more detail?
thanks!

[jessebruni]

I've never tried it quite as strict as all that, but I did just finish 6 weeks strength followed by 6 weeks power. I think the phases were too long. I'm going to try a 3-2-1 cycle next, 3 weeks strength, 2 weeks power, 1 week PE, repeat.

I'm also going to double down on my weaknesses (full body strength, large muscle groups, basically your strengths) which for me means less time climbing and more time lifting weights. I think this is the exact opposite advice I'd give to most people, but I've been climbing for 7 years now, my technique is good, I know how to climb, I need to get physically stronger in more than just my forearms.

As for my program, I was doing max hangs during the strength phase. 10 seconds on, with as much weight as I could handle with a strict half crimp grip (all 4 PIP joints at 90 degrees), if I started to drop into a semi-open crimp I'd have a friend "spotting" me who would put their hands on my waist and lift up so I could complete the set. I did 2 warmup sets and 5 normal sets. Each set was a 10 second hang with 3 minutes rest. The program was basically 2 workout days, 2 outdoor climbing days, and 1 antagonist/active rest day each week. During the strength phase I would do hangboarding on both workout days, power endurance on one day, and limit bouldering on the other day. During the outdoor climbing days I worked a hard project on Saturday (13d/14a project where I can do the moves but can't link more than 3 or 4 in a row), and worked on maintaining by climbing 13a's and b's on Sunday. So intensity is high even on outdoor climbing days. On antagonist days I'd do typical antagonist workouts like shoulder presses, dips, push-ups, shoulder girdle maintenance work with resistance bands, etc, as well as a 20 minute ARC session to build some aerobic endurance and encourage recovery.

The power phase was the same except I changed from 2 hangboard days to 1 hangboard day, and went from 1 limit bouldering day to 1 limit bouldering day and 1 campus day. On the hangboard day I switched from max hangs to 1-arm hangs of 5 seconds since I felt the power phase should be more intense than the strength phase. I did these after campusing since I wanted to be fresh for campusing. For campusing I did strictly max ladders.

During both phases I did supplemental exercises at the end of each workout day. Heavy Deadlifts (1-6 reps, 4 sets), front lever progressions, weighted pull ups, and one-arm inverted rows. During the power phase I cut out the pulling exercises.

And that's about it. There's a lot of room for improvement in that program, specifically, the phases were too long. But I found a lot of things out that were useful, like how much I like 1-arm hangs for instance, and how weak my lats are. Still learning.

[alexandra]

So you only did one hang board grip for 5 sets during strength phase? Also, did you limit boulder/PE on the same day as hang board? if so, did you do it before or after hang boarding? I don't think I will ever have the finger capacity to do a proper limit bouldering session after any reasonably good HB workout

I am thinking for my next hang board cycle to use the maxR protocol in the book, with alternating one arm hangs. I will probably post a separate thread to get an idea if this would be ill-advised at my stage (only one training cycle in), but please also let me know what you think.

By the way, if you are interested in an intense strength/lifting program (my coach programmed it for me and does it himself as well. It is supposed to provide massive strength gains within 6 weeks or so) let me know and I can send it to you (I don't think most people would like to follow something like that, so I won't post it on the forum). It takes about 45 minutes total and involves all the main lifts (squat, lunges, deadlift, press, bench, push jerk, snatch balances etc) as well as a ton of accessory work (curls, raises, weighted pull-ups, handstand pushups, muscle ups, dips etc). It is best done with at least 72 hours rest in between, so you can do it the one day a week where you do strength and still see gains.

[jessebruni]

Yeah, only one grip, 5 sets. I think in the future I'm going to up this to 3 grips though (half crimp, 3 finger open, and pinch). As far as PE on the same day as Hangboarding, that one's easy, you don't need to be at max strength for PE. Limit bouldering after hangboarding is a bit harder, but ultimately limit bouldering is limit bouldering for a variety of reasons, not just because you have to pull really hard on tiny holds. More often than not a limit boulder for me was limiting because I couldn't do a really deep lock off, or couldn't keep my feet on, both of which are due to different muscle groups failing besides finger strength. On the occasions where a limit boulder was at my limit due to finger strength, I often found that after hangboarding I felt very recruited, but not necessarily tired. I probably could have lasted longer if I hadn't hangboarded before, but I'd say I could still get a solid 45-60 minute session before my strength started to wane even after hangboarding.

I'd be happy to look at your strength program, I'm taking all the ideas I can get at this point.

As for one-arm hangs, they're pretty intense on your shoulder, so if you have a really solid shoulder strength it'll probably be okay, but if not I'd just stick with heavy 2-arm hangs. Part of the reason I switched to one-arm hangs was simply because I wanted to change things up to prevent plateauing, and another part was because I'd never tried one-arms and wanted to see what they are like. Ultimately, I think I like a good mix of heavy max hangs, one-arm hangs, and repeaters, probably in that order, to cycle between to prevent plateauing. Heavy max hangs builds up raw strength, one-arms increase recruitment, and repeaters build capacity. That's the way it seems anyway, whether the science actually supports this I couldn't say.

[alexandra]

I was trying to send you the strength program but I am not sure how to add an attachment to a personal message. Any ideas?

[Lundy]

Post it here... I'm sure others would enjoy reading. Even if we don't use it, it's always good to have more resources than fewer!

[tedwelser]

Apr 19, 2016 7:41:20 GMT -7 alexandra said:

I was trying to send you the strength program but I am not sure how to add an attachment to a personal message. Any ideas?

You need to host the file elsewhere (like Dropbox) and then paste the link into your message.