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Post by majorsick on Nov 16, 2015 10:19:36 GMT -7
I'm considering putting in my ARC time for my next training cycle on my homewall rather than moderate terrain at the gym. My wall is 50 degrees overhung and I currently have a 30 move up/down circuit set with super positive jugs that I've been using to get pumped and hang on as long as possible. I'm at about 7 minutes right now, but the limiting factor is my skin - jug rash, blisters, and overall pain shut me down before my forearms do (which is ultimately the case in the gym as well). I recently got some very thin & durable rubber lined gloves that I've cut the finger tips off of, and I'm hoping they will take the skin factor away.
Obviously climbing in this manner will not fulfill the physiological goals/criteria of ARC training. I'll be pumped out of my mind if I can even last as long as the prescribed burns in the ARC phase. I'd envision trying to log the total prescribed time of the workouts, divided into as many segments as necessary. It seems that if I can build up to staying on for longer and longer durations, that I could raise the threshold of my ARC abilities and acclimate my forearms to a severe pump.
What are you guys' thoughts on this?
Edit - I'd also be curious on suggestions for rest between climbing attempts. 1:1? 1.5:1?
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Post by brendann on Nov 16, 2015 10:57:20 GMT -7
You need to not push yourself to "pumped out of my mind" and step off the wall for as long as it takes to recover. Only you can determine how long the work/rest ratio needs to be. ARCing is not about getting irreversibly pumped.
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Post by majorsick on Nov 16, 2015 11:02:18 GMT -7
You need to not push yourself to "pumped out of my mind" and step off the wall for as long as it takes to recover. Only you can determine how long the work/rest ratio needs to be. ARCing is not about getting irreversibly pumped. Definitely not looking at these activities to fulfill the same physiological goals of actual ARC training. I'm more just looking to the group for thoughts on how (if at all) the workout I'm proposing will benefit my climbing and fit into the standard RCTM training cycle.
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Post by brendann on Nov 16, 2015 11:12:41 GMT -7
Sounds like classic intervals, also called Power Endurance. I use them to 'tune up' my periodized plan near the performance phase. Without a proper base phase you will start to hit your pump ceiling and fail to progress. Alex Barrows has some good endurance training ideas.
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Post by MarkAnderson on Nov 16, 2015 17:49:00 GMT -7
I agree with Brendan that doing PE work at the start of your phase will likely be unhelpful (at best).
I would look into building a temporary/move-able Kick Plate that you could place in front of your wall's existing base, thus allowing you to reduce the effective steepness of your climbing terrain.
If you don't like that idea, I would do "volume bouldering" instead of trying to ARC on a 50 degree wall.
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Post by majorsick on Nov 17, 2015 7:39:42 GMT -7
Thanks for the feedback guys. Where, if at all, do you think these workouts would fit into a standard cycle?
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Post by MarkAnderson on Nov 17, 2015 18:18:09 GMT -7
PE or Performance Phases.
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Post by Garage Gym on Dec 3, 2015 9:58:54 GMT -7
I have the same issue w/ my wall. I have a 30, 45 and 10 degree wall but the 10 wall is only 8 feet tall before a roof. I use volume bouldering-lots of easy problems without too much rest-for base. I also ARC on my steep wall by occasionally putting one or both feet on the ground and continue to move my hands. Its really easy to maintain the desired pump this way. I don't just plop my foot on the ground but place it w my toe as if it were a hold. Of course I used to be able to ARC more easily on my wall until I stripped all the big foot jugs off and replaced them w micro chips per the training manuals recommendations. this accomplished 2 things, 1. It really improved my foot work which lead to major performace gains and 2. Got rid of the less dedicated climbers who use my gym. Thanks!!
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Post by MarkAnderson on Dec 3, 2015 21:14:31 GMT -7
2. Got rid of the less dedicated climbers who use my gym. Thanks!! Haha!
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Post by ryanmcd on Dec 20, 2016 23:46:52 GMT -7
I have the same issue w/ my wall. I have a 30, 45 and 10 degree wall but the 10 wall is only 8 feet tall before a roof. I use volume bouldering-lots of easy problems without too much rest-for base. I also ARC on my steep wall by occasionally putting one or both feet on the ground and continue to move my hands. Its really easy to maintain the desired pump this way. I don't just plop my foot on the ground but place it w my toe as if it were a hold. Of course I used to be able to ARC more easily on my wall until I stripped all the big foot jugs off and replaced them w micro chips per the training manuals recommendations. this accomplished 2 things, 1. It really improved my foot work which lead to major performace gains and 2. Got rid of the less dedicated climbers who use my gym. Thanks!!
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Post by ryanmcd on Dec 20, 2016 23:48:16 GMT -7
"I also ARC on my steep wall by occasionally putting one or both feet on the ground and continue to move my hands. Its really easy to maintain the desired pump this way. I don't just plop my foot on the ground but place it w my toe as if it were a hold."
This is what I've been doing on my 8x8 45 but have been wondering if this achieves the same or similar goals as ARCing. Is the main purpose to maintain an 80% pump for 20 min.? If so, I can do that!
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Post by jetjackson on Jan 8, 2019 17:38:05 GMT -7
Resurrecting this thread, as I've swtiched to ARC on my 40 degree wall for a couple of reasons for this next training cycle.
The first reason is that the gyms are basically too hot to climb in here at the moment, with the sun baking them in the afternoon, it's not uncommon for the temp in there to be in the high 80s making long ARC sessions unbearable and inefficient.
The other reason is that I'm working towards climbing Eye of the Tiger - a severely overhanging endurance route, and I'm wondering if, rather than doing 3 x 30 minute ARC sessions on a 10 degree wall on mid 5.10 to mid 5.11 - which I worked up to last year - that I do shorter ARC sessions on the 40 (in my air con bubble) that will be more specific to my goal route.
I tried this yesterday, and was able to do two 10 minute reps, and in the third I lasted for 8 minutes before getting super pumped. Based on previous experience, I think I can work this up to about 3 x 15 minute reps whilst staying in ARC zone over the next 3-4 weeks of ARC training.
Looking at the pro's and con's of this. The pro's are that I'm training forearm endurance on jugs in a way that I can't do anymore on a 10 degree incline - I could literally sit there on jugs on a 10 degree incline for hour. Also, I have a couple of heel hook rests on the 40, and there are heaps of those on my goal route, and I realised yesterday that I don't actually have hamstring endurance for resting on heels, so this may help build that.
The cons are that I can't use medium sized holds without getting into PE territory - anything about 1.5 pads or smaller will just push me over into PE. The other con is that on the 40 I'm mostly resting, and not moving a lot. I'll do a small 10 move circuit, and then hang out on a heel hook rest for a minute and then do another small easy circuit - not a lot of technique practice.
I'm thinking that I may need to try and change it up - ARC in the gym on 10 degrees on the days where it is cool enough to do it, and on the hotter days, get the 40 degree ARC in on my home wall.
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Post by cozisco on Jan 8, 2019 18:44:36 GMT -7
Two quick questions: 1) Are those the only two options -- 10 degrees or 40 degrees? Does your gym have anything in between those two that's suitable for ARCing?
2) Eye of the Tiger looks amazing, but I don't know specific beta. Are any sections of the route easy enough for you to climb while staying in the ARC zone that your home wall replicates (40* 5.11 jugs)?
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Post by jetjackson on Jan 8, 2019 18:49:20 GMT -7
At the gyms I go to yeah, actually it's a speed wall - might be 15 degrees. No access to a 25-30 degree wall.
The route is basically a 70-80 degree roof, moving along on heel hooks, then a weird cross onto a stalactite like feature that hangs down, you climb down and around that, and then you're probably 30 degrees overhung, with some awesome jugs, but poor feet. Then it eases off to about 10-15 degrees for the final head wall - which has a couple of knee bars. No single move is harder than V4-V5, but it stays on, and most people end up with a wicked pump by the chains.
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Post by erick on Jan 8, 2019 20:36:05 GMT -7
I think you nailed the main downsides with ARCing on that terrain but one more is that I found my movement would just get sloppy. Like moving back and forth between holds that are not too far away cause I could no longer do realistic bigger moves. When I was doing it I found that I was spending so much time resting (I did not have many big jugs) that I didn't think I was really getting the benefit I was after. That's when i started playing with the Horst Threshold Intervals which are better suited to that type of terrain. The other big + of ARCing on steep terrain is that since I focused on shoulder form it really improved my should girdle strength and made resting less stressful on the rotator cuff.
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