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Post by MarkAnderson on Aug 18, 2015 7:07:07 GMT -7
There's definitely a little of the false precision thing happening, but I track all that other stuff too! A log from any given hangboard workout for me has bodyweight, added weight for each grip and set, time on each rep (e.g. 7,7,7,5,3 for a set where I failed to complete all reps), room temp, humidity, and "general notes" where I'll comment on anything out of the ordinary, like not getting much sleep the prior night, being sore or stressed out. Back in 2009, I dropped 22lbs of bodyweight between adjacent cycles, from 152 in the summer cycle down to 130 in the fall cycle. It was a very good fall that year, lots of sending. But the apparent gains on paper when I look back...mostly just dropping bodyweight, only added about 5lb of "real" strength. I record all those things too, I just try not to put too much stock in them. I will occasionally look up my body weight or the temperature for a certain workout (usually a workout when I set a PR) out of curiosity, but usually the data isn't used for anything. I'm sure future archaeologists will be fascinated by it though.
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Post by slimshaky on Aug 18, 2015 7:49:00 GMT -7
Mark, Why the switch from the RPTC thin crimp to the campus rung? Seems like the RPTC grip is smaller, so that this was a bump up in crimp size, yes? Any reason? Were you targeting routes with just slightly larger holds (seems unlikely)? Personally that hold absolutely crushes me, and I could move to a campus rung, but I'm feeling stubborn and really want to keep working the RPTC crimp. First, the campus rung is shimmed (above it) with a 3/8" block, sowhat's left to pull on is a 3/8" deep edge with about a 1/8" radius. I have a couple issues with the RPTC crimp. The biggest problem is that it's too sharp/textured. I started by sanding off all the texture (between the first 6 workouts), but once I did that there were voids in the plastic underneath the texture. So even with the texture removed, there were still sharp micro edges I couldn't get rid off. On top of that, the edge flexes once you get about 200 pounds on it. I was afraid eventually it would snap off during a rep, and might jack up my skin in the process. So while the campus rung is 1/16" deeper, I use it because it's way easier on my skin. The Forge is designed to correct the aforementioned issues. yeah, i switched back to my old crimp (3/8" piece of wood trim with radiused edge) for similar reasons. i had a hard time really bearing down on the nasty crimp for 3 sets. i think my next cycle will use 2 sets on the wood crimp and then 1 set on the nasty crimp. (actually, i think i was supposed to do that for this cycle but i didn't label my workout sheets correctly.... so... i think i am going to just do all 3 sets on the wood crimp for this cycle).
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Post by slimshaky on Aug 18, 2015 7:54:19 GMT -7
I suspect that is not linear! Perhaps if you expressed it as a percentage of total load (body weight + applied load) it would become closer to linear. It would be interesting to collect some data. I feel like the difference between where I am now and when I did my first 14a is on the order of 40 lb across all grips. It would be hard to prove though because I've down-sized several times since then and the actual loads applied haven't changed that much by design. But for the sake of argument, the first season I used a closed crimp (the season I did To Bolt), I topped out at +35. I've down-sized 3 times since then, and my current PR is +55. man, 40 lbs across all the grips is a pretty colossal gain! but, i guess that did take a while. if i could go up 40 lbs over the next 5 years or so i would be psyched. i think it is also non-linear as well. (not to mention it is kind of a rough guess, based on quickly looking over the last couple years). there are a bunch of other non-linear things in there as well - i have gotten (and am getting) more efficient at redpointing, etc. also depends on application of the hold to the route, etc. this would be another case where if a 1000 RP minions could get some good data together it would be pretty interesting to see the results.
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Post by slimshaky on Aug 18, 2015 8:02:58 GMT -7
I would suggest that using the actual load (i.e. bodyweight + added weight), rather than just the added load, would be a better way to track these if you are interested in long term look at strength gains. Weigh yourself when you start the session*. (*I don't actually do that, I weigh myself first thing every morning and just use that weight in my logs)... i added the 'total weight' graphs a couple seasons ago because i had some questions about some of this. in the past, i always kind of figured that if i was lighter that my 'added weight' values would be higher because i wouldn't have to hang with such heavy body weight (ie the 'total weight' would be less). i figured i wouldn't really be that much stronger if i was heavier. when i looked through the data afterwards though, it looks pretty apparent that i can hang heavier added weight when i am on the heavier side. ie my 'total weight' strength and my 'added weight' strength is better when i am heavier ~7 to 10 lbs heavier than fighting weight. one nice thing is that i can drop weight very easily during the power phase, so i am hoping i can buy a little bit extra using this scheme.
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Post by joshvillen on Aug 18, 2015 8:14:41 GMT -7
Slim, are you doing everything in your power to retain as much muscle mass as humanly possible? I would think muscle loss would be one of the only explanations for lower overall weighted hangs
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Post by slimshaky on Aug 18, 2015 8:27:36 GMT -7
i really try to keep from losing muscle, but it is definitely hard for me to keep any gains that i make. i try to keep my protein intake fairly high, etc. during my 2 best cycles (last winter) i let myself eat pretty much whatever i wanted. i wasn't climbing at all (just working) so i got kind of fat (at least for me...). i was kind of surprised that I PR'd almost every grip on both cycles.
this cycle i am trying to do the 'eat 20g of protein every 3 hours or so' gig. hopefully that helps.
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Post by joshvillen on Aug 18, 2015 8:31:34 GMT -7
i really try to keep from losing muscle, but it is definitely hard for me to keep any gains that i make. i try to keep my protein intake fairly high, etc. during my 2 best cycles (last winter) i let myself eat pretty much whatever i wanted. i wasn't climbing at all (just working) so i got kind of fat (at least for me...). i was kind of surprised that I PR'd almost every grip on both cycles. this cycle i am trying to do the 'eat 20g of protein every 3 hours or so' gig. hopefully that helps. Yea thats where I am at as well, protein every 3 hours, I am burning through money like crazy but weight loss has been more gradual than normal(good sign) because I normally lose weight crazy fast
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Post by jessebruni on Aug 18, 2015 9:37:09 GMT -7
Hey Mark, how big was that original thin crimp that you were doing +35 on in 2008? I'm assuming it was larger than the RPTC thin crimp but now I'm curious how much. I'm right on the cusp of doing bodyweight on the RPTC thin crimp and seeing all this data is making me wonder why it's seems to be so hard for me to improve this grip when I clearly have plenty of potential room to improve.
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Post by Lundy on Aug 18, 2015 9:44:05 GMT -7
I'm in EXACTLY the same boat, Jesse. I improve soooo slowly on that crimp, yet I feel like I could/should be pulling much bigger weights on it.
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Post by MarkAnderson on Aug 18, 2015 10:21:25 GMT -7
when i looked through the data afterwards though, it looks pretty apparent that i can hang heavier added weight when i am on the heavier side. ie my 'total weight' strength and my 'added weight' strength is better when i am heavier ~7 to 10 lbs heavier than fighting weight. I've found the same thing, and that's one way I rationalize eating normally (ie, not dieting) during the Strength Phase.
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Post by MarkAnderson on Aug 18, 2015 10:25:18 GMT -7
Hey Mark, how big was that original thin crimp that you were doing +35 on in 2008? I'm assuming it was larger than the RPTC thin crimp but now I'm curious how much. I'm right on the cusp of doing bodyweight on the RPTC thin crimp and seeing all this data is making me wonder why it's seems to be so hard for me to improve this grip when I clearly have plenty of potential room to improve. It's the blue hold in this pic, from the Entre Prises Super Tweaks line:
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Post by jessebruni on Aug 18, 2015 10:51:29 GMT -7
Haha, that thing looks heinous! Don't know that I've ever been on those holds but it doesn't look too much better than the thin crimp on the RPTC.
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Post by MarkAnderson on Aug 18, 2015 14:00:49 GMT -7
If I remember I'll make a measurement tonight. Somebody bump this thread in 3 hours!
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Post by rob on Aug 18, 2015 15:36:24 GMT -7
Why is that do you think? Greater glycogen stores? Not that you'd think it would make that much difference. more muscle mass? But 10-7lb of muscle used to HB (I.e. Forearms) is huge! Do you think there's a way to prevent strength decreases while dropping weight? when i looked through the data afterwards though, it looks pretty apparent that i can hang heavier added weight when i am on the heavier side. ie my 'total weight' strength and my 'added weight' strength is better when i am heavier ~7 to 10 lbs heavier than fighting weight. I've found the same thing, and that's one way I rationalize eating normally (ie, not dieting) during the Strength Phase.
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Post by Chris W on Aug 18, 2015 17:34:54 GMT -7
Hey Mark, how big was that original thin crimp that you were doing +35 on in 2008? I'm assuming it was larger than the RPTC thin crimp but now I'm curious how much. I'm right on the cusp of doing bodyweight on the RPTC thin crimp and seeing all this data is making me wonder why it's seems to be so hard for me to improve this grip when I clearly have plenty of potential room to improve. That little thing is the cleanest hold on my entire hangboard. I haven't even touched it, much less imagined going +35
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