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Post by Chris W on Jul 3, 2015 20:39:24 GMT -7
I'm about to enter uncharted territory. Up to this point, my goal routes have all involved training to hang on; no stopper moves to worry about. My next goal route, and the next step up in difficulty at my local crag, is Hinterland. It's a bit different, because for the first time I'll have moves that are hard enough I'm not sure I can do them.
Hinterland is two "pitches", with the first being about 40(?) feet of 5.10d which I often use as a warm up. Two extra bolts gets you to the mother of all jug rests. I could literally ARC here for 30 minutes if I needed to, the jug is that good. What follows is a 6 move boulder problem. It's probably a V5 problem. It will either involve hanging on to a small crimp with a left hand, crossing over with a R, then hitting a big jug. The alternative would be hitting the crimp with a right (easier) and then just throwing out left for the bigger jug. There's another boulder problem after that, but I've heard it's not as tough. It may not sound like much, but those moves have stopped some people for years.
Any tips on how to work a route with a short and distinct crux like that? Planning for training?
My plan:
1) ARC like [heck] during the base fitness phase so I can camp at the jug to recover if need be. 2) Practice cross over moves while ARCing 3) Set two LB problems for the power phase with similar movement 4) Shorten my LBC intervals WAY down, from 4 min each to about 1 min each or less 5) Figure out some way to maintain power longer in the performance phase than before 6) Work the route early in the PE phase 7) Bring a stick clip to the crag? haven't used one of these to get up a route before...
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Post by MarkAnderson on Jul 4, 2015 18:04:09 GMT -7
Definitely bring a stick clip, you should be doing that anyway! (your ankles/knees/back/cranium will thank you).
Anyway, my recommendation is MORE POWER! This type of route has always been my Achilles Heel, but in the interest of procreation my climbing has shifted over the last several years such that now I climb these routes most of the time. I still feel like I suck at that style, yet I've managed to send some routes of that type that I wouldn't have dreamed of attempting five years ago.
Trying it both ways (striving for more endurance vs. more power), I'm totally convinced that more power is the way to go. Your back story further compels me to recommend more power. Basically you've always been an endurance climber, so the last thing you need is more endurance.
One tactical thought: consider sprinting through the 10d. Hopefully at this point you have it wired and can climb it fairly effortlessly. From this point on, focus on climbing it quickly, with the goal of ultimating blitzing through it and skipping the big rest. This may not turn out to be the best approach, but its worth trying. Often people ruin their chances on this type of route by hanging out forever. You may be able to shake all day on the jug, but every second you spend on your arms is bleeding a little bit of top-end power away. Often you can climb much more powerfully with an intense but brief pump than you can with a long "slow burn". (an easy way to test this is to try a hard boulder problem after an LBC vs after an ARC session)
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Post by Chris W on Jul 4, 2015 19:21:40 GMT -7
This may sound like a funny question, but:
1) How do you climb with a stick clip? Do you trail a line behind you and pull it up when you need it? Clip it to your harness? Do you just clip all the way up to the chains and then "second" the climb? I've seriously never tried it before.
Regarding sprinting through the 10d, I think I will try that. I noticed this spring that I tend to use large rests as a type of security blanket and that it did drain the juice. Once I cut the umbilical cord, I sent my project (Groovin', best 11d at Birdsboro).
2) Regarding power, considering that the crux is quite literally 6 hand moves, how long would you make your LBC? I was thinking of three short, hard problems, one up, one down, one up, timed to prevent detraining.
3) During the PE and Performance phase, would you recommend replacing one LBC workout per week with a power workout (campus/bouldering)?
4) My wife laughs when she sees me on the computer and always asks "How are the Anderson brothers tonight?". Lisa says hi, and she is grateful I no longer try to climb all the time (just during 6 weeks per cycle).
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Post by MarkAnderson on Jul 5, 2015 15:39:48 GMT -7
1) Methods vary, here is what I do: Lead from the ground, without a haul line or stick clip, but with at least two quickdraws. When I get stuck or scared, I go straight in to the highest bolt I've clipped (if I lack faith in the bolts, I might go into the second-to-highest bolt and tie a back-up knot). I pull up slack and lower a loop to my belayer, who hooks the stick clip onto the rope (helps if the stick is extended first, and certain stick clip designs are easier to hook than others). I pull up the stick, clip the next bolt. Usually I clip the stick to a lower bolt so it's handy if I need it again. 2) That seems a bit short to me. I tried a two-problem LBC once and it seemed like it did nothing for me. How many moves (approximately) does it take to reach the crux, and how long do you think it would take to climb the entire thing? 3) I would use combo Power + PE workouts for my mid-week indoor sessions, as described here. 4) Haha, Kate got a kick out of that one. I'm well thanks for asking
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Post by andrew on Jul 5, 2015 16:52:49 GMT -7
Hi Chris,
Having climbed Hinterland I think you've described it well, and I think Mark has prescribed the best solution- power. The crux is so short you almost don't even need PE to get it done. I think if you are familiar enough with the lower part you don't need to worry too much about ARC training- its not very overhanging and once you've got an efficient sequence I'd call it good. I wouldn't discount the type of power you can gain from working the crux either- you might just surprise yourself.
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Post by Chris W on Jul 6, 2015 1:49:41 GMT -7
Wow, I'm really not sure. I typically don't think of climbs that way. 30 moves? 40 moves? Maybe 5 minutes to climb the whole thing? It's 6 bolts to the anchors of the first pitch. I could be WAY off; I'll have to check when I get back on it. I've seen guys who have it dialed float it as a warm up.
Andrew, thanks for the heads up; I probably will try to work the crux a bit during the power phase. Any tips on what the route is like after the crux?
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Post by rob on Jul 6, 2015 13:06:26 GMT -7
Hi Chris,
I had a similar problem recently on a 5.12b I sent. The route is a short technical 5.11d into a huge dead point move to a small LH crimp and a hard move from this to the next hold, then a small section of low 5.10 to finish. On my first session the big move felt really low percentage. I could barely do it fresh from that point, and the next move felt really hard when I did stick it.
I went home and recreated the 2 move problem on my tiny 4 by 8 bouldering wall which is also a campus board (bottom panel comes off). I did 3 sessions on the problem after my normal sessions. Once I had it dialled I even made it slightly harder than the route - each session I had around 5-8 attempts, just repeating it over. I had only recently had the idea to make my campus board double as a bouldering wall, so had never recreated a sequence before.
Around 8 days later I returned to the route. On my first try I stuck the big move effortlessly, but my foot slipped on the next hard move. On my second attempt I did both moves effortlessly and sent the route. I was really, really shocked at the difference it made - in just over a week it had gone from feeling impossible to easy.
Anyway, as you've probably guessed, moral of the story - recreating a repeating the sequence I think is key to this sort of route with a distinct crux section/s. But maybe try making it harder than it is in reality once you've got it dialed, worked for me.
Good luck!
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Post by Chris W on Jul 6, 2015 14:19:07 GMT -7
Thanks Rob. I'm setting a few limit boulder problems on my 35 degree wall with similar movement, specifically left hand crimp, poor high left foot, hard cross with right hand. I plan on setting something similar with the hands reversed to try to work each side of my body.
Mark, how many campus sets would you do for your power maintenance routine, relative to your regular power workouts. Half?
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Post by MarkAnderson on Jul 6, 2015 17:56:06 GMT -7
A campus session in my Power Phase will last up to 50 minutes (usually my first session is closer to 30 min, and then I add about two sets/4 minutes with each session), and it looks like I was doing 20-30 minute sessions for maintenance, so ya, about half.
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Post by Chris W on Jul 11, 2015 20:39:55 GMT -7
Mark, did you try or consider replacing one of your typical PE workouts with a regular power session instead of making a hybrid maintenance session? Did you feel that the length of your LBC (looks long, close to 40 moves) detracted from your power maintenance?
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Post by MarkAnderson on Jul 14, 2015 17:52:14 GMT -7
Typically I only get one gym day a week during the PE Phase, so in that case I try to train everything. That particular season I was lucky to get one outdoor day per week, so I would vary the workout such that I tried to do an LBC every other training day or so (essentially if the last work day was inside and included PE, and the next work day was inside I would skip PE). Fairly imperfect since it was all driven by weather, but I tried to get one plastic PE day each 5-7 days.
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Post by Chris W on Sept 17, 2015 17:33:19 GMT -7
So I hit the project yesterday for my first session. It was a humbling learning experience. The stick clip was invaluable; I trailed a line and pulled it up when I needed it. There are fixed draws on the route, so I found it much easier to simply clip my rope through one of my own draws, clip that to the fixed draw, and then pull up and switch them.
I felt totally trashed after my first "working session" on the route. Not sure how long I was up there (but I'll bet my poor climbing partner knows) but it sapped a lot of strength and power. Turns out the crux goes a little farther than I thought, through two bolts (10 moves? 12 moves?), and is particularly cruxy because of limited foot options. Don't think I'll be able to clip the bolt in the middle on redpoint burns, but the falls should be clean.
Moves all felt do-able, so power may not be as much of an issue as I thought. May not focus too much on power during PE phase, but haven't decided yet.
Any suggestions on how to prevent burnout and reasonable expectations working a route like this? The first session was a bit bumbly, just like my first power workout after the strength phase, so I didn't worry about it too much.
Also, I found that wearing a pair of belaggles was a great help, both to me and my belayer. Looks goofy, but worth every penny. First piece of climbing gear my wife ever COMMANDED me to purchase.
Sorry for the rambling...
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Post by MarkAnderson on Sept 17, 2015 18:52:07 GMT -7
... May not focus too much on power during PE phase, ...Any suggestions on how to prevent burnout ... Ya, focus on power! Seriously, I think the reason people crash off their peak is that they exclusively climb (on routes), get pumped over and over again, without maintaining their power. It only takes about one session a week to maintain quite high power levels throughout your climbing season. It can be a drag though when the weather is good and you'd rather be trying your project.
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Post by Chris W on Sept 18, 2015 1:51:54 GMT -7
Got it, will do. With my circumstances, it shouldn't be a problem to get 1 or 2 indoor sessions per week. Back to the barn!
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Post by Chris W on Sept 30, 2015 4:33:47 GMT -7
In the spirit of full disclosure, I'm at a bit of a low point. I caught a virus from my son, had fevers for about a week, got a little worse and developed pneumonia. I lost two opportunities to climb outdoors (HUGE miss for me), had to pass on a free babysitter for a full day (father-in-law, God bless him) and didn't get to go out for my anniversary on the 25th (was in bed shivering with a fever). Now that I'm feeling better, it's raining. A lot. At least I don't have appendicitis...
At risk for turning this thread into TRAINING for a power crux route:
1) By combining power and PE in the same workout, I don't feel like I'm doing either very well.
I also don't have quite as much time to train as some do. I've been doing short ARC and WBL, about 30 min total, then on to campus board, 30 min total, then trying LBC, goal of 2 min per set, but flying off the wall well before 2 minutes are up. Trying this workout every 3rd day.
2) I'm thinking of changing to do a power session, one day rest, PE session, 2 days rest, then repeat. Power session would add 1-2 hard/limit boulder problems (currently none, only WBL) and 4 baseline max ladder sets (currently none, just trying to do baseline +1). PE session would be normal.
3) I'm wondering if my LBC problems are too low percentage. They involve some tendon-friendly but slightly sloping crimps, similar to the crux on my project. I thought changing these to make them slightly more positive (not larger though), but am hoping to complete some full sets with the problems as is by dividing the work, as above.
Any thoughts? Sorry for the long post.
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