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Post by brians on Feb 8, 2019 6:14:45 GMT -7
Now I'm just confused. I was very proud of myself yesterday when I managed to hang on to my 15 degree wall for a full 20 minutes without falling off. Couldn't do it two weeks ago, but I have to try like [heck] to stay on the wall, even on large holds. Does this mean my intensity is WAY too high for ARCing? It seems like too long to be used for power endurance. I can hang on my vertical wall on tiny feet with small crimps forever, but my goal route for this year is Twinkie 12a down in the RRG. I'm trying to get some type of specificity in my ARC workouts. I've been doing my first ARC set on the vertical wall, and second set on the 15 degree wall. That's awesome! I wouldn't stress too much over the semantics and physiology. If you're getting better at hanging out on overhanging terrain (which you clearly are), that will definitely help you on Twinkie (or just about any other 5.12/13/14 at the Red. Your approach is pretty similar to the way I ARC. It helps keep my skin from limiting my workout (work the tips in the first set, work the second pads in the second set). I have been ARCing for over 3 years and I still find skin to be the limiting factor whenever I do more than 2 sets. To clarify, climbing for 30 minutes is not a problem, and skin in the normal sense (like calluses in outside climbing) is not the issue, the problem is in set 3 my hands skin/tendons/hands just feel irritated (for lack of a better word) to the point that I don't even want to touch a hold. Does anyone else experience this and have any solutions?
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Post by erick on Feb 8, 2019 15:36:14 GMT -7
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Post by cozisco on Feb 8, 2019 16:44:15 GMT -7
Yeah -- tape, lots of chalk, and some rhino skin dry cream as well. Pre-sanding your 1st and 2nd pads for a few weeks before ARCing can help build hard skin as well, though for me I've seen minimal return given how much time it takes. Side note: I ordered a 5-pack a few weeks ago and have tried it a few times now. I've found that it's not as durable as something like eurotape and it's tough to get a tight wrap with this stuff. Since it doesn't stick to your skin, you have to hold down the end with your thumb and wrap the next layer over it, but that's not easy since your thumb's in the way.
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Post by Chris W on Feb 8, 2019 18:13:13 GMT -7
Regarding skin, I have more of an issue in the middle of the summer when the temps and humidity in my barn are both in the 90's. I just try to make sure I don't have large callouses that can tear into a flapper and am careful to place my hands/fingers on the holds with precision so they don't slide around or off.
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Post by Greg H on May 22, 2020 14:02:37 GMT -7
Its 2020 covid lockdown, I just bought the rock prodigy book and have also been reading extensively about running training and various metabolic zones. Apologies for resurrecting this dinosaur of a thread but if nothing else it is still helpful today! Just wanted to thank everyone on this thread and particularly Coach Seiji for their input on this and bravo/thank you everyone for having such a kind and respectful discussion of different ideas on a web thread! How refreshing!
What got me searching/here was confusion around ARCing level, just like others.The book calls for for ARC'ing with moderate but manageable pump. One problem I’m seeing is that “Pump” is broadly defined and MSS seems to be confusing as well. I'm going to state some working definitions of metabolic zones before diving in more:
Top of Zone 2 - Aerobic threshold, defined as blood lactate reaches 2.0 mmol/L. Metabolically almost exclusively aerobic, minimal lactate production from glycolysis. Top of Zone 3 - Lactic threshold, defined as point where removal/metabolism of lactate by the aerobic systems equals lactate production from the glycolytic system. Above this level and lactate concentration will grow and correlate with (but not cause) an increase in pump, below this level, lactate is still being produced in large quantities but is fully removed.
There is a critical diagram in the book that shows ATP production from the phosphagenic, glycolytic, and aerobic systems. It then has a line across the graph and identifies Maximum Steady State (MSS) as a level that maximizes BOTH glycolytic and aerobic capacity. That sounds a lot like the Top of Zone 3 ie Lactate Threshold to me.
Given how I understand the goal of ARC’ing (aerobic and capillary development), a climber should ideally stay BELOW the top of Zone 2, which I think is the heart of Coach Seiji’s points above. That way you get the most aerobic development. Being in zone 3 will lean too much on anaerobic and zone 4 just way off the mark. Given all that I would define MSS as top of Zone 2 at the Aerobic Threshold.
The other challenge is how difficult it is to define “pump”, or at least confusion as to how different levels of “pump” map to specific metabolic zones.
“Managing a pump” on a typical climbing wall can be as variable as stemming (full rest/ie inactive for forearms), doing moves that generate minimal to no pump (zone 1/2), moves that generate some but not an actively growing level of pump ie “manageable pump” (zone 3), and moves that do increase pump (zone 4) but can be recovered from while shaking out on a jug (zone 2 ish). Thats a real quick and dirty mapping based on personal experience. Rereading the book it advocates for operating in what sounds like mostly zone 3 with short jaunts into zone 4 being okay if you take time to rest from them. That suggestion runs counter to Coach Seiji’s recommendations above, which I understand to be advocating for spending time primarily in Zone 2.
In an idealized world, we could all train on Treadwalls with a 5-10 degree overhang, doing moves of consistent forearm muscle difficulty while also maintaining technical variety for the course of a 30-45 min ARC session. AND we would know how different personal levels of pump mapped to different metabolic zones. Maybe I will just have to buy a Lactate Plus Meter.
Fun stuff! Happy training everyone!
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