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Post by brandonp on Apr 12, 2019 4:59:29 GMT -7
Hi everyone,
I wanted to bring this thread up to have some discussions on what it takes to be a top competitor at IFSC and USA Climbing Events. Of course these 2 events are completely different in the amount of competitiveness. Of couse, this is not to disrespect climbing outdoors.
Specific questions Id like to ask is
1) What is the most ideal age to start? 2) Whats the max age for when youre too old to start trying to competing at that level? 3) are you able to live this kind of lifestyle if working a 9-5 job, 40 hours a week? Do you need to quit your day job [assuming theyre flexible witn you flying out for competitions, give you unlimited PTO] 4) How many RCTM Microcycles would you think it would take to reach from a novice to a pro? 5) Would they need to take on a different training program except RCTM?
Appreciate all feedback
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Post by MarkAnderson on Apr 12, 2019 7:59:42 GMT -7
...IFSC and USA Climbing Events. Of course these 2 events are completely different in the amount of competitiveness. Do you mean IFSC is "completely different" from USA Climbing events? Or do you mean indoor comp events are completely different from some other thing, such as rock climbing?
Anyway...
1) I think the ideal age to start is as young as possible. ABC Kids has teams starting at age 3.5. You could certainly start earlier than that as well. On the other hand, I've talked to coaches who say kids that start before age 8 tend to burn out. So like with all things it probably depends on the person.
Sidenote: One problem I foresee that I haven't heard discussed: I think to stay psyched with anything at that age you need to experience success. The comps I've been to, and just gym setting in general these days, really favors reach. So these comps are selecting for the tallest kids. And yet we know, both anecdotally and mathematically, that smaller beings are better climbers. So there is a real danger of crushing the spirit of the kids with the best long term potential.
2) Maybe 14 or 15? Sharma started around that age, but of course he was supremely talented. So if one were supremely talented, perhaps that could get away with starting that late. It's going to get harder and harder to start late and still compete, but maybe we still have some time until the demographics broaden.
3) I would think theoretically you could do it with a 9-5 job, but I don't know of anyone who does.
4) ~50, assuming you had sufficient talent for climbing. Some people will do 50 cycles and never climb 5.13.
5) Yes.
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Post by brandonp on Apr 12, 2019 8:22:20 GMT -7
Hey Mark, thanks for your reply.
What I mean is indoor comp style can be a lot different than Outdoor.
I mention IFSC/USA Climbing as in IFSC, its more competitive. Youre competing against the whole world, while USA is just US Competition.
One thing I want to ask is, what different training programs for that type of climbing would you recommend/have seen?
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Post by MarkAnderson on Apr 12, 2019 11:37:57 GMT -7
Ok, got it. Yes, I agree. At this point their pretty much different sports, especially if throw in speed climbing.
I'm not aware of a training program geared toward comp climbing. There must be some. If I were to design one, it would include tons of slopers, compression & core training and lots of esoteric dynamic movement.
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Post by jetjackson on Apr 13, 2019 0:01:43 GMT -7
1) What is the most ideal age to start? - It seems like the younger the better. 2) Whats the max age for when youre too old to start trying to competing at that level? - I'd think, given the point it has reached these days - probably mid-teens is the very latest, but I'd think around 13/14 is starting to get too late. 3) are you able to live this kind of lifestyle if working a 9-5 job, 40 hours a week? Do you need to quit your day job [assuming theyre flexible witn you flying out for competitions, give you unlimited PTO] - I don't think so - I think you need a flexible part-time job. A lot of the top climbers combine study and training, and they find that works. 40 hours a week is where you are getting tired and stressed from work and it will eat into your recovery capacity. 4) How many RCTM Microcycles would you think it would take to reach from a novice to a pro? - 5-7 years of training minimum, however you couldn't put a number on it in terms of cycles as you would vary this heaps based on the comps you are entering, but I would put it at that timeline on the basis of observation. 5) Would they need to take on a different training program except RCTM? - Most definitely. IMO RCTM is working for me because I have other hobbies and work, and this allows me to maximise training time and target performance during specific periods. Comp climbers need much broader skills IMO than the performance focused climber doing the RPTM. Shameless plug - I interviewed one of our Aussie climbers who is vying for the Olympics, and has done a whole bunch of world cups both lead and boulder. We discuss some of the things you mention - youtu.be/DhIJj5ASXaUShe works part-time and splits her training sessions around it. She did not feel she could combine study and training - it was too much for her. She does periodised training that leads up to each comp - which she discusses in the interview. One thing I found interesting in the interview was how she mentioned that when she first came across 2-tex holds she came off because she didn't know the hold, and how getting to travel and see other setting types and hold types has helped her in comps. She admitted to looking at hold company websites at night to learn what new holds look like in case she comes across them.
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Post by brandonp on Apr 13, 2019 7:26:19 GMT -7
Thanks Mark and Jackson for your feedback!
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Post by hajekmarek on Apr 15, 2019 10:22:56 GMT -7
> 1) What is the most ideal age to start? While starting at an early age provides some advantages, I believe genetic traits that favor physical attributes for climbing are far more important. A friend of mine competed in the world cups in the 90's all the way to the finals. She was first introduced to climbing when she was in her 20's (22 I believe). Similar to Chris Sharma, she outperformed everyone around her within first year of climbing. Considering the top IFSC competitors climb 5.15 these days, it's going to be nearly impossible for the average Joe who doesn't possess genetic predispositions for climbing to rise to that level.
> 2) Whats the max age for when you're too old to start trying to competing at that level? One minor distinction one might make is whether you are referring to bouldering or rope climbing. I believe one can compete in rope climbing a bit longer than bouldering as our bodies lose power faster than power endurance as we age. Have a look at the oldest competitors in IFSC. With a couple of exceptions, by the time the competitors get into their 30s, they typically don't place very high in the world cups. Exceptions that pop into my mind are Jain Kim(~30) and Romain Desgranges(~36) - there are a couple others. I haven't seen anyone compete in IFSC in their 40's.
> 4) How many RCTM Microcycles would you think it would take to reach from a novice to a pro? The friend of mine I mentioned above started competing in IFSC within 3 years. Again, genetics are key at this level. In other olympic sports, it takes about 5 years of intense training to achieve the necessary adaptations and experience to compete at that level. There is no reason to believe climbing is any different.
> 5) Would they need to take on a different training program except RCTM? As already answered, absolutely. A large percentage of IFSC climbers train via some type of non-linear periodization program. Genetics come into play again. Genetically gifted individuals can train several times a day six days a week. One of the key things to IFSC level of training is recovery. The average Joe without genetic advantages simply cannot train like that.
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Post by brandonp on Apr 15, 2019 12:05:05 GMT -7
Thank you for your feedback.
What would you say someone is genetically advantage? Would you say wide arm span, long fingers, naturally strong tendons?
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Post by jetjackson on Apr 15, 2019 15:43:26 GMT -7
> 1) What is the most ideal age to start? While starting at an early age provides some advantages, I believe genetic traits that favor physical attributes for climbing are far more important. A friend of mine competed in the world cups in the 90's all the way to the finals. She was first introduced to climbing when she was in her 20's (22 I believe). Similar to Chris Sharma, she outperformed everyone around her within first year of climbing. Considering the top IFSC competitors climb 5.15 these days, it's going to be nearly impossible for the average Joe who doesn't possess genetic predispositions for climbing to rise to that level. > 4) How many RCTM Microcycles would you think it would take to reach from a novice to a pro? The friend of mine I mentioned above started competing in IFSC within 3 years. Again, genetics are key at this level. In other olympic sports, it takes about 5 years of intense training to achieve the necessary adaptations and experience to compete at that level. There is no reason to believe climbing is any different. With the increase in popularity, and the widespread proliferation of gyms has meant that more people are coming into the sport, and at a younger age. These days we are much further up the genetic potential curve of the sport than we used to be. I tend to agree - I think both genetic potential, and starting at a young age are both important factors.
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Post by hajekmarek on Apr 16, 2019 9:17:59 GMT -7
> What would you say someone is genetically advantage? Would you say wide arm span, long fingers, naturally strong tendons? You list a number of physical attributes that are dictated by genetics. Yes, naturally strong tendons are a good example. IMHO, long fingers are not an advantage because longer fingers means longer levers which means greater stress in the joints and potential for injury.
Tendon insertions, tendon/muscle length which can yield better biomechanics. Some people have much better extracellular matrix than others. Capillary occlusion and metabolic waste removal. While these systems can improve through training, some people's systems are inherently much better than others. Same for naturally occurring number of mitochondria. This again can be greatly improved through training - after all that's why we ARC, but some people naturally have a better setup than others. I vaguely remember reading a research paper that identified around 200,000 mitochondria along a muscle fiber in an untrained individual. With training the number of mitochondria increased to around 400,000. Genetically gifted individuals will naturally have a higher density. Proportion of fast twitch/slow twitch muscle fibers. The RCTM manual has a nice discussion about that. Better natural neuro-muscular firing. Some people are naturally stronger than others. The rest of us have to work hard to retrain these pathways, such as finger boarding under high load.
I am sure there are many other genetic factors. The above is what came to my mind as the most relevant. Perhaps others have additional ideas...
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