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Post by jrblack on Nov 4, 2017 22:55:23 GMT -7
I'm 55 and fairly injury-prone. Although I enjoy bouldering, I tend to get hurt with it, so I usually climb routes more. I'm in the strength phase right now, but power is next and reading RCTM it looks like campusing and limit bouldering are the tools recommended to gain power. I'm very worried that I'll get hurt doing either of these. Are there other options? Seems like options are - Skip power altogether and go to PE instead
- Perhaps just boulder under my limit and purposely climb more dynamically
- Campus steep boulder problems in my gym
- Campus on a campus board and use assistance (stand on a chair, for example, and use much less than bodyweight)
I love the fact that with hangboarding you can mediate the amount of resistance. This means you get a consistent, predictable load on your fingers that grows slowly as your body strengthens. This is so much better than just going out bouldering where you put random forces, in random directions, in unpredictable inconsistent ways and (for me at least) get injured.
But unfortunately there doesn't seem to be an analog in the power phase where you can carefully control the amount of resistance on your fingers and slowly work up to higher loads.
John
(If it matters: I am redpointing about 11a outdoors, flashing about V4 at Earth Treks Golden (which seems mega-soft to me), and I can campus V3 cave problems at the same gym.)
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Post by Chris W on Nov 5, 2017 4:12:13 GMT -7
What are you injuring? Fingers? Arms? Ankles?
How are you injuring yourself? Falling? Tweaking something on a power move?
Do you have your own home wall?
There's a power protocol for the hangboard in the book somewhere which I've done because of a family vacation. It felt pretty "safe". I'm 34 though...
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Post by jrblack on Nov 5, 2017 6:51:15 GMT -7
What are you injuring? Fingers? Arms? Ankles? How are you injuring yourself? Falling? Tweaking something on a power move? Do you have your own home wall? There's a power protocol for the hangboard in the book somewhere which I've done because of a family vacation. It felt pretty "safe". I'm 34 though... You name it, I've injured it. Fingers, elbows, shoulders, mostly. I just tweaked a finger a month ago trying a too-hard boulder problem. I have never been injured in a fall... it's always overuse (medial epicondylitis, for example) or tweaking something on a climb/problem (finger injuries). I don't have my own home wall, but I'm building one in the garage... unfortunately only has 10' ceilings. --- I feel like at my level (11a redpoint) strength, endurance, and technique are more important than power for now. If I break into higher grades, maybe that will change?! At the same time, campusing looks fun.  |
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Post by aikibujin on Nov 5, 2017 8:46:57 GMT -7
I've tried to train power on the hangboard, but I don't feel it's very effective. I think you really can't replace limit bouldering and campus for power training. However, if you are easily injured, it's probably not unreasonable to dial back on the intensity. I would go with option 3 and 4, and make sure I increase the difficulty very slowly. For option 3, if you're campusing at the cave at the left end (near the big rollup door) of ET, go campus some problems on the wave wall to the right as well. When I see people campus in the cave, most are basically swinging around on straight arms (like on a monkey bar). It's fun, but it doesn't really teach you how to initiate movement, how to use momentum, how to control your center of gravity. There's actually quite a bit of technique involved, watch Alex Megos' video in the linked page and notice how he twists and turns his body into certain positions to keep his movement in control. It may not be pure power training to campus around on jugs, but I think it's useful to learn the technique. Don't worry about campusing a whole problem right now, but rather, focus on campusing 3-4 moves with good form: don't let your shoulders sag, don't swing around wildly, etc. Useful to prevent injuries. trainingforclimbing.com/boulder-campusing-for-power-endurance/For option 4, the campus board at ET has lower rungs for your feet. Foot-on campusing is a good way to introducing campus board into your training. Again, focus on doing just a few moves with good form (form is discussed here). Since you said you're injury prone, I'd err on the side of caution and spent longer than necessary with foot-on campusing, make sure my form is perfect (maybe video yourself) before moving onto the medium, then the small. And once you're used to latching the small rung with your feet on, then I would very carefully try matching ladder (with no feet) on the large rungs. I feel like at my level (11a redpoint) strength, endurance, and technique are more important than power for now. If I break into higher grades, maybe that will change?! At the same time, campusing looks fun. For the short term, you probably won't see much difference in your climbing between skipping power training or not. I can't think of any 5.11s in the Front Range where I thought, "man, I wish I had more power to do that route." But think of it more for your long-term gain. Most of us think of dynamic, powerful climbing as "thuggy", but there is quite a bit of technique involved in thuggy climbing as well. Start working on that style of climbing will make you into a more well-rounded climber. |
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Post by MarkAnderson on Nov 5, 2017 9:02:47 GMT -7
I like option 1 best. You can do Recruitment training on a hangboard, which is half of the power equation, but frankly considering where you are I would recommend just skipping Power for now. If you find yourself approaching 5.12, it might be worth re-considering, but for now I would do a few RP cycles without power and see where it takes you. One thing I really like about systematic training is that it can help clear up injuries and create a solid foundation for more intense activities. Maybe after a year or two of careful training you may feel better prepared for bouldering and/or campusing.
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Post by climbnkev on Nov 5, 2017 9:03:04 GMT -7
I used to follow a similar cycle where most seasons were based on injury vs performance. Switching to a regimented training plan changed this. The big difference is psychological, as you approach your sessions with a bigger picture mentality, each session is part of a bigger plan.
Power is a critical component to climbing performance and can actually reduce your risk of elbow injury by climbing with more momentum. Power Bouldering is a decent replacement for limit Bouldering (big moves on a steep problem to decent holds). Maybe consider integrating some max hang fingerboarding.
I don’t know you personally, but based on your stats I would guess that finger strength and technique are your big limiters. So stop with the jug canpusing.....90% of the people I see doing that in the gym have horrific climbing technique, the other 10% already climb V10+.
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Post by jrblack on Nov 5, 2017 11:16:56 GMT -7
The Alex Megos video was amazing.... that kid is super strong! At the risk of completely embarrassing myself, I'll share with you a video of me campusing a V3 at ET the other day. I acknowledge this was just for fun and has probably zero training benefit, but I wouldn't mind hearing your reaction as far as form and technique go. Is this the kind of silly straight-arm swinging you often see from weaker climbers who are jug campusing in the gym? www.youtube.com/watch?v=QH0luqqpDPUUnfortunately, ET doesn't have very large campus rungs on their board. A gym closer to me (Evo) has several larger rung options, but I don't like the gym overall. (The bouldering area is not as good as ET, they don't have system boards (they do have a moonboard, but that's above my level right now) and they don't have the Andersons' hangboard *gasp*) But yeah, feet-on campusing is a good idea and certainly possible at ET! Though I think I'll do what Mark suggests and just try a year without power phases and build a base. In fact, I came back to climbing a year ago (after 16 years off) and just ARCed for the past year wanting to condition my body to climbing again. So far so good. |
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Post by MarkAnderson on Nov 5, 2017 18:38:15 GMT -7
You like you have plenty of upper arm power. You should be asking us for fashion advice |
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Post by jrblack on Nov 5, 2017 19:14:56 GMT -7
You like you have plenty of upper arm power. You should be asking us for fashion advice What??? It took me like 2 hours to put that outfit together! The RCTM really needs a chapter on fashion. Maybe the 2nd ed.? |
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Post by aikibujin on Nov 6, 2017 16:43:53 GMT -7
At the risk of completely embarrassing myself, I'll share with you a video of me campusing a V3 at ET the other day. I acknowledge this was just for fun and has probably zero training benefit, but I wouldn't mind hearing your reaction as far as form and technique go. Is this the kind of silly straight-arm swinging you often see from weaker climbers who are jug campusing in the gym? It’s definitely better than many I’ve seen, like Mark said, looks like you have good power in your upper arms so you’re not swinging around on straight arms. So you probably don’t need to do jug campusing to gain more power. But if you want to delve into the technique for campus bouldering, I think the biggest difference between someone who is really good at campus bouldering and the rest of us is the control and the use of the lower body. When we are new to campus bouldering, most of us focus primarily on the upper arms. Our core is relatively unengaged, and the swing of our legs is the result of our movement with no forethought, so often we need to control the swing after we perform a campus move. I have this problem on the campus board, especially on moves close to my limit. Maybe because I’m working so close to my limit physically I can’t control my legs, or maybe my mind is focused on my arm movements I can’t focus on my legs. Whatever the reason. If you watch someone who’s good at campus bouldering, they do it with their whole body (not just their upper arms). Ttheir core is engaged, their torso is more in line with the angle of the wall they’re campusing, and the movement in their legs is very controlled, and often deliberately executed to help them make the next move. There is almost no excessive or wasted movement in their legs. Look at that video of Alex Magos campus bouldering, in the very beginning of the video, he started in pretty much a cave. Notice how his torso is not hanging straight down, but closer to horizontal. This prevent him from dragging his feet on the ground, but more importantly, having his torso more aligned to the angle of the wall allows maximum reach with his arms. Of course he can’t hold this position the whole time (very core intensive), but you’ll notice he will do this whenever he’s making a very long reach. Also notice the last three big moves he did, he was twisting and turning his body, basically applying the same steep technique like twist-locks to campusing. If he climbed the moves with feet on, he probably would’ve put his body in the exact same positions. It’s like he is flagging in mid-air. If you watch good climbers doing campus bouldering (you can search for “magnus midtbo campus bouldering” for another cool video on Youtube), they’re often “climbing” with their whole body, just with their feet off the wall. Not to beat you up or anything, but since you posted your video, we can use it as an example. You’ll notice that you’re hanging mostly straight down from the holds, and your core is generally unengaged. You’ll pull up fairly powerfully, throw your hand to another hold, and then have to control the resulting swing in your legs. There were a few moves when you utilized that swing to reach the next hold (the couple of side-way hand match moves), but there were also moves when your timing was off and you worked against the swing (the second move in the video, where you reach with your left hand when your legs were just starting to swing to your right). I haven’t been to ET for months so I haven’t climbed this problem, so I don’t know how it climbs, but I wonder if it was meant to be climbed with so many hand match moves. Generally, a problem is set with a sequence in mind, so when possible you want to campus in that same sequence. On easier problems you can match on all the jugs, but as the problem gets harder, you won’t be able to match on holds, so you’ll have to follow a specific sequence of hand moves. But yeah, don't get too hung up on this. Based on your video you have enough upper arm power, so I wouldn't spend too much time playing around with jug campusing. |
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