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Post by jrblack on Nov 6, 2017 11:20:18 GMT -7
When you said in your OP "haven't seen the improvement I was hoping to see", have you seen improvement in your training? I mean, ignoring your climbing efficiency (which is dependent on a huge set of underlying strengths and skills), have you seen improvement on, say, hangboard numbers? Or campusing performance?
Although I can't quantitatively capture it, I know for certain that 2 months of ARCing resulted in noticeable endurance gains just because I can do the same system board for more minutes, at a steeper angle, without resting on jugs anymore.
If you are seeing (say) hangboard-based strength gains without increasing your RP grades, then yeah, I'd agree with the overwhelming sentiment in this thread that you just need to get outside more.
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mclay
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Post by mclay on Nov 7, 2017 1:42:58 GMT -7
The truth is (as most have stated) I do just need to find ways to get on routes more. Logistics and proximity to goal routes are my big problems.
I don't think I was being honest with myself about the two years of training - it has been very fragmented with a total of 6 months of that period having no training or outdoor climbing! Combined with the lost performance phases I guess I should be pretty darned happy with improving my hardest RP by 3-4 grades. Also I have felt really close on a couple of harder routes in the past year, but then I have never been able to get back on the routes to project.
Training measurements have certainly improved in the past two years though. That keeps me going. Sometimes I feel like I am just training to train (my "goal route" is just finishing a HB workout with 3 PRs!), but I can also look at it as making an investment for a time when I will actually be able to get outdoors more often.
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mclay
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Post by mclay on Jul 31, 2018 19:33:39 GMT -7
Old thread resurrection/Training re-start...
After some of the craziest months of my adult life, I'm finally getting back in the saddle of training/climbing. Ended up back in the USA and things worked out to be very close to Red River Gorge doing what I've dreamed of doing for a living for awhile. I guess going back to my OP I've eliminated the proximity/privilege excuse. Excited to see if I can finally push towards some of the goals I set when I first read RCTM 3 years ago.
Any training tips for the Red? Starting on building my Moonboard tomorrow...thinking 25 degrees instead of 40 as I'm not a strong boulderer and I need something to train PE on when it's snowing.
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Post by erick on Aug 1, 2018 10:50:24 GMT -7
I think you'll be happy with a 25* board. Have you already bought your moon holds? If not I would seriously consider the tension board. Good luck and post about your build when its done and your progress.
Eric
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Post by jetjackson on Aug 1, 2018 21:18:36 GMT -7
I think you might just need more time on rock. I used to live in Mozambique and climbed a lot at Boven, and while the grades are what they are, they climbing is really technical at every grade. I remember having my mind blown by an 18 or 19 there that I thought was just unbelievable, tricky, technical movement (I was climbing 29 at the time). I could easily see beginners struggling to make progress there if they're not climbing a lot, as so much of getting up a climb there is knowing how to move, not whether you can pull on a hold. Boven really rewards having a huge database of movement in your brain... Anyway, all that to say you might be getting stronger, but strength might never have been your limiting factor, especially at a place like Boven. Jumping in here to concur with this. I traveled to Boven to climb last month and I thought it was amazing. I spoke in my recent 'vlog' on it and how I thought that the 18/19 level routes there were so great - particularly at the waterfall crags, because usually routes elsewhere at that grade are just a paddle haul, but these had really, really interesting movement. Some of the stuff on Day of the Triffids - I mean, for an 18, or whatever it was, that climb was just superb. The thing I did find about boven was that it was mostly edges - due to the way the Quartzite cleaves there - compared to say Arapiles here in Australia, where the Quartzite tends more to edges, as well as, slopers, crimp seams, pockets. So in answer to your question McClay about technique, you're definitely going to end up being really good at certain things if you stay at Boven, the rock there tends to have horiztonal rooflets with headwalls... so you'll probably be awesome at pulling around onto headwalls, and the number of high feet I did there - you'll probably be a pro at that. However, you might find your pain tolerance and ability on tiny pockets that you might find on limestone, will be lacking. You'll be great at pulling on flat (non-incut) edges, etc. etc. I don't think that's that different to anyone else though - I'm developing a certain technique skillset that's pretty specific to Aussie sandstone, which is different to say RRG or NRG sandstone. I could be climbing 5.13 here in a few years time but I'm sure if I jump on a plane to the Franjura I won't be smashing out pocket climbs all of a sudden. One thing that occurred to me about travelling to these remote crags though, is that I'm not really able to climb there for long enough on a trip to really appreciate the nuances of the place to the point where I further hone my technique on that particular type of rock. I'm usually relegated to routes at my OS limit or below. So I don't think I'm necessarily driving home those techniques. I'm rambling, but I guess my point is that specific development of a technique at a specific crag is great, you really get the chance to hone in certain things over time. Getting back to where I was going with this, I don'think you just develop technique at the start of your climbing career and then it becomes something you don't really work on for the rest of your climbing career. Certain techniques will only come into play once you have the strength to do the moves, certain techniques only apply on certain types of rock... so you're always going to be learning and developing technique, and I think you do that concurrent with all the other facets of climbing ability - mental and physical.
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mclay
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Post by mclay on Aug 2, 2018 8:31:09 GMT -7
I think you'll be happy with a 25* board. Have you already bought your moon holds? If not I would seriously consider the tension board. Good luck and post about your build when its done and your progress. Eric I bought Sets A & B used for a really good price, and the dude threw in about 30 jugs to warm up on too. Interested to know why you recommend the Tension board. I don't know much about it. From what I can tell on the Moonboard site the 25 degree problems have really taken off with the new set-ups for 2017. They range from 5+ up to 7B. Since I need to use the wall for more than limit bouldering, I agree that 25 seems a better option. However, other sources have said don't bother with a Moonboard if I don't go 40 degrees. Eventually changing it to 40 degrees would be an easy and cheap modification.
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mclay
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Post by mclay on Aug 2, 2018 8:38:30 GMT -7
@jet I loved your Boven overview. Made me "homesick" as that was the first place I ever climbed outside and has been my home crag for the past 5+ years. It was really cool to see you guys on routes I've been on. Did you send Freak-On? It was my goal route ever since I started RCTM. Hoping to get back there someday, once I get RRG strong Stylistically though, I agree. I've been surprised in the little RRG climbing I've been able to do this summer just how different the areas are. I've got a long mental learning curve ahead. But at least, perhaps overly simplistically, training finger strength and tons of PE seems to be the key for improving here in Kentucky.
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Post by erick on Aug 2, 2018 10:26:09 GMT -7
I think you'll be happy with a 25* board. Have you already bought your moon holds? If not I would seriously consider the tension board. Good luck and post about your build when its done and your progress. Eric Interested to know why you recommend the Tension board. I don't know much about it. my tension board reviewWood holds keep your fingers nice Large variety from jugs to nasty small holds Problems that let you set "foot only" holds keep movement specific Uniform holds that may not be as interesting but are not tweaky Symmetrical setup lets you train both sides of a movement pattern I think both boards have a place and I just mentioned the T-board in case you hadn't bought holds yet. I just encourage everyone to look at the tension setup before deciding on moon cause its awesome and I think it would be super nice at that angle!
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Post by jetjackson on Aug 2, 2018 23:54:56 GMT -7
@jet I loved your Boven overview. Made me "homesick" as that was the first place I ever climbed outside and has been my home crag for the past 5+ years. It was really cool to see you guys on routes I've been on. Did you send Freak-On? It was my goal route ever since I started RCTM. Hoping to get back there someday, once I get RRG strong Stylistically though, I agree. I've been surprised in the little RRG climbing I've been able to do this summer just how different the areas are. I've got a long mental learning curve ahead. But at least, perhaps overly simplistically, training finger strength and tons of PE seems to be the key for improving here in Kentucky. I hopped on Freak On - was recommended by many, but I just didn't have it in me thanks to a bad cough I had picked up a week or so before. In the end there was too many good routes in the 5.10 range so I just had heaps of fun climbing as many of them as possible. In regards to the Red - have you read this post about 'cultivating deep hold fitness' - boulderingathenscounty.blogspot.com/2015/07/cultivating-deep-hold-fitness.htmlI think circuits on 30-40 degree training the best thing you can do for the Red. RRG... so jelly. Love that place!
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mclay
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Post by mclay on Aug 15, 2018 8:21:34 GMT -7
Finished the Moonboard a few days ago...it's hard! I can hang on most of the holds, but really struggle to connect moves. But then I haven't trained since last December, so hopefully things will come right soon. I tried to post a finished picture, but wasn't able to figure it out.
As far as getting back into training cycles, I am stumped about trying to ARC on this thing. Right now my plan is just to slowly build volume by increasing the number of "boulders" I climb each session while using the jugs mostly. We shall see how that translates to milage for when temps come right in a month.
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mclay
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Post by mclay on Aug 23, 2018 12:50:05 GMT -7
Finally got the pic uploaded. I'm pretty happy with it. Went with 40 degrees and regretted it the first time I tried a Moonboard problem. Flail-fest. I used to think I was pretty decent at thuggy/overhanging stuff based on my limited gym climbing, but apparently I am the world's weakest Moonboarder. It's bad. Like embarrassingly bad What's that quote about practicing your weakness? I need to hear that quote! I'm currently reading 9 of 10 Climbers and it says that fear of failure holds us back more than physical limitations. I'm going public with just how bad it is merely to try to hold myself accountable and honestly assess how weak I am. Self-shaming/Brutal honesty commences now - In 4 sessions I've linked 2 moves (different moves on different problems) on 6A+. Pros: My Moonboard looks cool. There's tons of room for improvement. I'm psyched to try harder than I'm used to trying. I have lots of jugs to play around on and warm-up on; it makes me feel like I'm stronger than I am. Cons: Every session is basically a Limit Bouldering session. I have zero climbing ego left (maybe this is a Pro). As I said before, this is my reintroduction to training. Power is now obviously my biggest weakness. I've been on outdoor tech-y 6A+ (and slightly harder) boulders that felt nothing near as hard as these MB 6A+'s. My fall goal is to RP an equal grade climb at the Red to my previous highest RP (22/5.11a). Surely there's the perfect jughaul out there to correlate with my current "program".
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Post by jetjackson on Aug 23, 2018 16:38:27 GMT -7
So everyone I know that gets on the moonboard for the first time gets thrashed. Stick with it, and you'll be surprised how quickly your racking up really hard problems and your power will really develop. They are of a certain style, and they are designed so that there is very little trickery that can be done to make them easier. Mate of mine built his and was having trouble doing V5's and I told him to stick with it - a few weeks later he had racked up a bunch of V6's and a couple of V7's.
It may help to get someone else round to train the MB with you.
I also just finished reading 9 out of 10 climbers. Personally, my head game has taken a hit since I took a big whip last year and injured my back, so I've resolved to take 100 falls from above the bolt by the end of the year.
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Post by erick on Aug 23, 2018 23:14:07 GMT -7
I've resolved to take 100 falls from above the bolt by the end of the year. I like this goal, very achievable and if you make sure your falls are real ‘climb till failure’ things you will definitely get up some cool stuff.
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mclay
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Post by mclay on Aug 24, 2018 7:17:29 GMT -7
I had heard this too, but didn't expect it to be so severe. To be clear, I've been consistently linking the two separate start moves of 2 different 6A+ problems. Jumping into problems midway hasn't been as hard, I can usually do a few moves to the top if I jump in (ie. stand start). It is the sit-starts or first two moves that really kill me. I've got these stork legs going everywhere and my core is currently trash.
I first read your goal as taking 100 FOOT falls. That seemed a little extreme and ultimately counterproductive. I re-read Erick's response 3 times thinking it was sarcasm, before I realized you weren't planning on training for a role in Masters of Stone 7.
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Post by jetjackson on Aug 27, 2018 2:45:50 GMT -7
I had heard this too, but didn't expect it to be so severe. To be clear, I've been consistently linking the two separate start moves of 2 different 6A+ problems. Jumping into problems midway hasn't been as hard, I can usually do a few moves to the top if I jump in (ie. stand start). It is the sit-starts or first two moves that really kill me. I've got these stork legs going everywhere and my core is currently trash. I first read your goal as taking 100 FOOT falls. That seemed a little extreme and ultimately counterproductive. I re-read Erick's response 3 times thinking it was sarcasm, before I realized you weren't planning on training for a role in Masters of Stone 7. Haha, no. Yes, the sit starts can be hard - learning to do those is a thing in itself. I also have really long legs - I'm 6 foot. I have had to find ways on a lot of boulder problems to turn my knees and pull my hips into the wall, just so I can do the same moves that shorter climbers can do almost straight on. Yes, 100 x above the bolt falls. I racked up 1 on the weekend, 99 to go!
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