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Post by alexandra on Sept 15, 2017 12:28:07 GMT -7
Hey Mark (and fellow climbers)! I've taken a long break from climbing (and training in general), due to a two month long surfing trip which ended with a pretty uncomfortable sickness, antibiotics, feeling weak etc for 3 weeks (!?!!). After visiting 3 countries and also moving to San Francisco, I have started climbing (bouldering) again indoors and outdoors now for the last two weeks. I feel like I have obviously lost some strength. Just as a reference, these two weeks I have been able to climb V5 within a session both in the gym and outdoors, and have not even attempted V6 yet (which was what I could climb before my break). Unfortunately, for my short (4 month) stint in SF, I could not bring my hang board with me, but the gym has a RCTP hang board which is a bit more polished than mine, but works fine ;p. I have done a couple of "max hang" style hang boarding sessions, where I only went up to 80% or less of my previous maxes. I can still hang for 10 sec from he small edge of the small VDER semi-closed crimp with +35lbs added (previous max wax 50, but i didn't push it). Moreover, the weather is always nice here and I could, if I wanted to, climb outdoors every day.
So given those statistics/location perks etc and the fact that I can only do "shorter" hangboarding sessions at the gym (I can't just take up the HB for 1.5 hrs to do repeaters protocol, other people use it at the times I can go to the gym), how would you recommend I proceed to "get back in shape"? my goal for this season is a V7 in Berkeley called "Stoneface", which is fingery and powerful. Here are the three directions I was thinking of: 1) Climb outdoors as much as possible, and potentially also climb at the gym and forget about training much/do some occasional training for the first month or so and then start a full on max hang strength cycle, followed by a power cycle, and attempt to send my project. 2) Start my strength cycle now, twice a week, and climb outdoors once or twice a week if possible. In that case, what protocol do you recommend I follow so that I avoid injury and get as strong as possible given my constraints? 3) Do a combined strength/power training, where I do max hangs once a week and campus once a week and then climb outdoors the rest of the time. (Also, in this case, how would you recommend I get back on the HB without much injury risk?) 4) Don't train at all and just get on my project and other climbs as much as I can these 4 months, till i move to colorado and re-set up my home training area.
Sorry for the long post and thanks so much! A.
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Post by Chris W on Sept 15, 2017 17:02:42 GMT -7
Why not start by going through a regular training cycle, as per the RCTM?
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Post by alexandra on Sept 15, 2017 17:09:05 GMT -7
I only have till mid December in the Bay Area and then I'm moving to Colorado. I just want to make sure I get outside and get on my project a lot so that I learn the moves. Doing a regular cycle would take about 1-2 months till I will be "ready" to get on the project- at least as far as I understand the training plan. I could shorten it by skipping base fitness but I still feel like spending a few weeks only hangboarding would not make sense due to time constraints.. but maybe I'm wrong in thinking this, that's why I posted here
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Post by Chris W on Sept 16, 2017 2:02:05 GMT -7
Do you feel like your body is ready to work on the project without getting injured? Anything tweaky or sketchy about the holds, moves, landing, etc?
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Post by alexandra on Sept 16, 2017 9:27:03 GMT -7
i don't know if I have enough power for it, but otherwise there is nothing particularly tweaky or sketchy about the problem. Its fairly lowball with great landing. Holds are small but not tiny - its just a matter of moving between them, cause I can hang from all of the holds..
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Post by alexandra on Sept 16, 2017 10:14:37 GMT -7
but say i actually ended up deciding to follow the RCTM cycle with strength, power, performance phases. Would you recommend against doing my strength portion following a max hangs protocol instead of repeaters? (so I would go to the gym, warm up, warm up ladder, some hard bouldering and then hang board as per Max hangs for 30 mins, every 3 days). Or should I really try to find some time that the gym HB is not occupied and just do repeaters (which might be hard with my schedule but potentially I can make it work). Sorry for being too detailed with my questions, I feel a bit disorganized now that I don't have my own setup and I actually have to drive for a while to hang board... thanks!
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Post by scojo on Sept 16, 2017 15:16:33 GMT -7
If you think you won't be able to stick to the repeater's protocol with your gym situation, then for sure the max hangs would be the better option.
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Post by Chris W on Sept 16, 2017 19:51:55 GMT -7
I've never done max hangs and don't know much about them. I also have very different life circumstances, i.e. a stable job and home, my own barn to train in, a wife and 4 kids to take care of, limited free time, etc. I draw up my rough training schedule a full year in advance, and the specifics about 4 months in advance. I'm up at 04:30 to train in the morning. It's a bit hard for me to relate to your specific situation.
If I were faced with similar circumstances, I would probably do one of two things:
1) I'd go out of my way to figure out a way to set up a hangboard in my current living quarters. This may involve begging forgiveness rather than permission. I'd do a full strength phase, as per the Rock Prodigy protocol, followed by a power phase, in which I'd climb outside 1 or two days per week and train indoors 1 or two days per week. I'd work my boulder project as part of my power phase.
2) If I felt comfortable enough that my injury risk was low and I had very little time, I'd just boulder outside and have fun on my project and the surrounding rock.
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Post by jonfrisby on Sept 18, 2017 9:20:54 GMT -7
If your goal is a sub 10 move crimp boulder, max hangs will work really well. I newb gained 20 lbs per grip in a little over a month when I first tried these so it might be enough of a short term boost to get your proj done. A more middle of the road alternative is 7 seconds on 53 seconds off x3 [eric horst] which promotes CP resynthesis. I do this protocol at 90-95% a max hang weight, so it has the side benefit of being a little less risky than max hangs. I'm a little worried about you doing max hangs and a bunch of campusing immediately after such a long break from training. Both of these activities will seriously stress your CNS.
If you want to climb outside a lot, I'd do block or nonlinear periodization until you move, with a de-emphasis on energy systems work.
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Post by alexandra on Sept 18, 2017 14:18:20 GMT -7
thanks jonfrisby! could you recommend a block/non-linear plan if you have tried one and has worked well for you? here is something else I thought about: Do 4-5 repeater protocols (suck it up and rearrange my schedule, it's only for two weeks), then switch to 4-5 max hang days and then move to power? Do you think something like that will work? Also, if I decide to do the eric horst protocol, should I also be training 4-5 grips as with the repeaters or 3-4 as with the max hangs? (I find that more than 3-4 grips with max hangs becomes pointless, I get too tired.)
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dsm
New Member
Posts: 48
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Post by dsm on Sept 18, 2017 19:34:41 GMT -7
Hi there. Just for what it's worth, not sure if you're using a specific gym but Berkeley Ironworks is my home gym and I've not really seen a lot of people using the hangboards, especially during the day time, if that works for you. Also the gym is pretty packed Monday thru Wednesday, but Thursday to Sunday much less busy especially just the fitness area with the boards.
It sounds like you did see the problem and you think it's about moving from small holds. For problems like that, I like repeaters more than max hangs.
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Post by aikibujin on Sept 19, 2017 7:33:01 GMT -7
To me, hangboarding is more training for the long term: gradually increase finger strength while preventing injuries. So for a short-term goal of climbing this V7 within 4 months, I personally won’t focus as much on hangboarding. If you can hang from all the holds easily, then more hangboarding probably isn’t going to help you send. There’s more to doing a hard move than just having strong fingers. If the condition is truly good for climbing, I would spend two or three times a week bouldering outside, climb some easier and fun problems, and work on the V7 as a limit bouldering problem. Tweak the micro-beta, try to do individual moves first (possibly with a power spot), then link a couple moves at a time, and figure out the best sequence. I might spent once a week doing some supplemental hangboard/campus board workout, but if I have to drive for a while just to go hangboarding, I might just opt to not hangboard and go climbing outside. I know we talk about training a lot, but don’t forget why we train (to climb)! If I only have four months to climbing in a place, then I’m moving, I would definitely prioritize climbing outside instead of training on a hangboard. I looked at a couple videos of the problem in question, it does look very fingery and powerful. I counted six moves to topout, so endurance is probably not an issue. The crux move appears to be a deadpoint to a right hand with bad feet, a lot of people cut their feet on this move. I did see one guy keep his right foot on when making that move. I remember you saying you’re not very tall, so I think the key is to figure out your own beta. If you can keep your feet on while making that right hand move, that will be huge. If not, then you may have to do some supplemental campusing work to increase your power.
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Post by alexandra on Sept 19, 2017 8:06:00 GMT -7
thanks everyone! aikibujin: Indeed I can hold all the holds on the problem. Also, the "crux" that you mentioned with the right hand move where you cut feet is not the crux for me. I do cut feet but I can hold the hold. In fact, I could do this move my very first time on the boulder. However, on the lower part of the boulder, I am too short to keep the toe hook and move between the holds so I need to do these moves more powerfully and not statically, hence I believe I am lacking power for this problem. I wanted to train on campus board once a week and go bouldering outside the rest of the time, but since I took such a long break, I don't think my fingers are ready for that. that's why I wanted to spend some time hangboaring for a few weeks and then move one to the campus once a week/climb outside the rest of the time. I was just looking for the most time efficient, while still good, hangboaring protocol..
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Post by jonfrisby on Sept 19, 2017 8:31:00 GMT -7
The Horst hangboard protocol is closer to max hangs than repeaters. I do 3 or 4 grips, depending on whether I am motivated enough to train pinches after the other grips - totally get you with it being pointless to do 5/6 grips on max hangs, a depleted nervous system just plain doesn't work. The research is still pretty unclear on programming various HB protocols but my feeling is that doing repeaters followed by max hangs is preferable to vice versa.
My favorite thing right now is block periodization. I do it very simply: I just pick one quality, and train it 2x per week and maintain the other qualities at 1x/week. It's not an exact science, and I sometimes rotate between 3 and 4 training/climbing days per week based on global fatigue. So this could look like:
STREGTH BLOCK: Sat: roped project or PE; Sun: hangboard; Mon: rest; Tues: limit boulder/campus; Wed: rest; Thurs hangboard only; Fri: rest Sat: roped project or PE; Sun: hangboard; Mon: rest; Tues: limit boulder/campus; Wed: rest; Thurs hangboard and hard, sublimit boulder; Fri: rest
POWER BLOCK Sat: limit boulder; Sun: hangboard; Mon: rest; Tues: limit boulder/campus; Wed: endurance; Thurs: rest; Friday: rest Sat: limit boulder; Sun: rest; Mon: hangboard/hard boulder; Tues: power endurance; Wed: rest; Thurs: limit boulder/campus; Friday: rest
PE BLOCK Sat: roped project or PE; Sun: hangboard; Mon: rest; Tues: limit boulder/campus; Wed: PE; Thurs/Fri: rest
The biggest thing that goes against the RCTM advice here is that I frequently hangboard second day on. I do not think one needs to be recovered to more than 85-90% in order to get a useful hangboard session in. Usually, if doing this, I will only do hangs (about 2-3 min total TUT) and heavy pullups and mobility this second day, whereas I will mix hangs and hard bouldering if I'm coming off a rest day.
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Post by jonfrisby on Sept 19, 2017 10:27:11 GMT -7
Alexandra, I just stumbled on Eric Horst's site offering his training program downloads for free. These are excel sheets with some tabs dedicated to programming. He goes into NLP a bit trainingforclimbing.com/training-programs/
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