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Post by Chris W on Apr 17, 2017 20:02:31 GMT -7
I've never been in this situation before, but I'm wondering if it's time to walk away from this season's goal route, train hard this summer and try to send it in the fall.
My current project is The Streak out at Birdsboro, PA. It's the hardest route I've tried to date (listed at 13a, but that's a bit debatable and may be high 12). It's 4 bolts of 5.10 climbing to a good rest, then the business starts. 12 hand move boulder problem to a good left hand clipping jug, no good hold for the right hand, 6 hand move boulder problem to a good right hand clipping jug, no good place for the left hand, 8 hand move boulder problem to a nice jug for both hands where I can rest, shake out each hand, and prep for the last deadpoint move to the clipping jug for the anchors.
It's possible I could refine my beta and make the moves more efficient. I've thought about moving through the whole section as quickly as possible to ward off the pump, I've thought about milking intermediate holds and positions to rest as much as possible in other marginal rests. I've analyzed foot movements and may still be able to tweak a few things.
The problem is, I haven't really made any good links yet. I can do all the moves fairly easily and consistently by going bolt to bolt, but I've yet to link any of the hard sections together. I've gone from the ground through the first boulder problem to clip, but my fingers have uncurled moving through the next section. I'm not really feeling considerably pumped.
I've been on the route a total of 5 days this season. 2-3 of those days were spent learning the moves. I'm traveling to the NRG in 5 days and won't be able to get back on the route before then.
So, any thoughts?
-I'm thinking that, since I'm not making any good links and not feeling pumped, it may be an issue of strength, not endurance or PE -I feel like I'm close, but not close enough to be failing because I'm pumping out at the top of the route. If that were the case, I'd probably keep working the route this season.
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Post by MarkAnderson on Apr 18, 2017 11:15:53 GMT -7
Are you still making progress? I try to stick with a route in-season as long as I'm still making progress each day. The amount of progress I consider acceptable varies depending on the difficulty (for me) of the route. For SB, I was satisfied with microscopic progress, and I would accept progress over a weekend, not just a single day.
How long will you be at the New? I find that if a trip interrupts a redpoint campaign, I will regress significantly when I return, so it might make sense to throw in the towel based on that. However, it's probably worth trying it at least once when you get back to see where you stand. A week of regular sending might be just what you need to break through on your project.
Also, what's the weather prognosis? Might be worth considering.
Finally, what is the upside to retreating at this point? It doesn't sound like there is any pressing need to get back to training (due to a rapidly approaching goal route, for example).
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Post by Chris W on Apr 18, 2017 16:45:17 GMT -7
So I'll drive to The New on the 22nd of April and drive home on the 1st of May. I'll do another LBC workout on Thursday before I go. Weather is iffy for the rest of the week, plus I have to help with the kids and packing, so I won't be able to get back on the route until I get back.
I do feel like I'm making progress, but it doesn't really show up on paper. I'm refining beta a little, but I feel like I just need to be on the route more. Outdoor time is a hard won and prescious comidity for me.
The weather has been rainy and warm, and will likely be that way when I get back. The temps could be in the low 50's or high 80's, depending on the luck of the draw.
When I come back, I'll have finished three weeks of my performance phase, following the template in the book for "advanced trainees".
The upside to stopping the route would be having time to try to repeat hard routes before my fitness declines too much.
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Post by tetrault on Apr 18, 2017 17:33:29 GMT -7
You may have already done this, but would creating a detailed move-by-move topo of the route so you can "link" and "climb" it in your head multiple times a day, visualizing as much detail as possible, to really get the beta wired and move through the sequences with little conscious thought help?
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Post by Chris W on Apr 18, 2017 19:55:56 GMT -7
Already done. When working a route, I memorize the beta fairly quickly, so much so that I have to be careful not to close myself off to the possibility of refining my beta and finding a better way. I've been running each tiny detail of every hand and foot movement through my head for weeks. I can see the route going, and I'm still having fun on it. Just wondering if my energy would be better spent elsewhere
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Post by MarkAnderson on Apr 19, 2017 8:24:19 GMT -7
The upside to stopping the route would be having time to try to repeat hard routes before my fitness declines too much. Do you mean re-sending routes you've already sent?
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Post by Chris W on Apr 19, 2017 9:18:12 GMT -7
Yes. All of my proudest sends, I haven't tried to repeat them. They're all classic Birdsboro lines. Groovin' 11d, Hinterland 12 b/c, Welcome to The Bird 12 b/c and, to a lesser extent, Monkey Boy 12 something (a hold broke). I've been wanting to do this anyway. It's just been hard. My outdoor time is limited and sending seasons are short, so I've just picked a project each season since I started the RCTM training.
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Post by MarkAnderson on Apr 19, 2017 10:52:44 GMT -7
That sounds like fun, but I don't think it would be more valuable to your development than sticking to your project. Hard to say though, since it's something I've pretty much never done.
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Post by Chris W on Apr 19, 2017 12:25:00 GMT -7
Interesting. Not the answer I expected from you, but I'll take it all the same. I'll see how my NRG trip goes and what the weather is like when I get back. I will likely have more climbing partners available then as well. It seems like I prefer temps much colder than a lot of other folks.
I'll let you know how it goes. Right now I feel fit and light. I'll stay away from the cookies and pancakes until May.
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Post by tetrault on Apr 19, 2017 14:08:02 GMT -7
You could potentially set yourself up for some disappointment if you walk away from the project and then also un-send your previous proud moments, as you probably have thought about.
Would the benefit to attempting to re-send be to see if the routes feel easier, or that you can come up with novel sequences, or merely something fun to do?
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Post by Chris W on Apr 19, 2017 17:24:21 GMT -7
Just something fun with no pressure. May not be able to resend in a single session since some of them were pretty hard for me.
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Post by jessebruni on Apr 28, 2017 10:53:22 GMT -7
I've been battling this for a while so I know how you feel! I've been working a local bouldery 13d since the start of 2015 and have had to walk away several times. To be fair, at the start of 2015 the hardest I'd ever sent was 13a and this thing was way out of my league, so the first time I walked away it was to get stronger. By the start of 2016 I could do every move and had linked it in 3 sections but I had to walk away in mid-spring when the temps got too high. In October of last year I almost sent it a few times, fell on the last hard move from the ground on 3 different occasions and had linked from 5 moves in all the way to the top. A few days after I got that high point the route started seeping and after a month of it being too wet to climb my fitness peak was gone and I had to walk away.
This spring I simply didn't have the motivation to maintain the specific fitness I needed for the route, and the few random weekends it was dry I had forgotten all the micro-beta I needed to send the thing, so I'm walking away AGAIN until the fall.
I've had to walk away from routes before, but never experienced anything like this, and I think it will only get worse as the routes I try get harder and harder. Conditions stat to matter more, more fitness variables need to come together at once...It's fortunate that 13d is (relatively speaking) not that hard, as right now the knowledge that at any given time there are hundreds of people in the US alone that could send this thing in a few tries, and that there's no reason I can't eventually be that strong, is the main thing keeping me motivated. I reckon when I send it, I'll be strong enough that I don't need to be super fit, and I won't need perfect conditions, and I won't need multiple weekends to work micro-beta. The window will open where the holds will be dry, and I'll just be able to fire it off.
Anyway, all that to say, walking away is challenging mentally but it helps to remember that walking away doesn't mean you won't get stronger.
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Post by Chris W on May 10, 2017 3:43:40 GMT -7
Update:
Ultimately, I decided to walk away from The Streak (my project) for the spring. I spent two sessions on it since I got back from my NRG trip and, though I did refine a little beta and make a little progress, I'm not close enough to keep going. I need to switch my focus for a little while. I'm starting to burn out on the route a little, and don't want to make it a chore. My house and yard need a lot of work, and I want to try my hand at re-bolting some routes this spring/summer. I'm going to put glue in bolts on some routes, including my project. My wife needs help with the kids and she has been remarkably patient and understanding this spring season. They're 5, 3, 1, and another one coming in November. My body needs to do a little bit of different training for a while (general strength and fitness) since my biceps and shoulders are starting to ache.
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Post by Chris W on May 10, 2017 3:58:12 GMT -7
Selfish side note and tangent: I need advice building my PE circuit for the fall season.
I think I trained the wrong type of endurance for the route. I thought it would be an endurance climb, so my PE circuit was 3 minutes long, with 3 boulder problems. Hard moves on the 35 degree wall to finishing jugs where I could shake each hand, down climb on jugs, then start the next boulder problem. When I was at the NRG, I cruised European Vacation 12b on the Super Mario Boulder. That route was hard moves to big jugs where I could shake out each hand. It felt so easy I couldn't believe it was 12b.
The Streak (my project) for me turned out to be hard moves to marginal rests where I couldn't fully recover. I was thinking of making the following changes to my PE circuit:
1) Shorten it to between 1:30 to 2:00 minutes 2) Make the moves a bit harder on smaller holds and the difficulty more continuous 3) No jugs at the end of the boulder problems, down climb on edges and small finger buckets instead of jugs 4) No holds or positions where I can shake out both hands -Should I... 5) Keep the 35 wall or build it on the 15 wall (much closer to the angle of The Streak) 6) Build problems to more closely simulate the movement of the climb, of just keep the focus on grip and hold type?
Any thoughts?
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Post by MarkAnderson on May 10, 2017 8:40:46 GMT -7
They're 5, 3, 1, and another one coming in November. Holy cow!
Anyway, thanks for the update, I was curious how the trip went...
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