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Post by tetrault on Jan 2, 2017 19:44:58 GMT -7
Finally getting around to taking 3rd person video for on-route general technique (and specific beta) analysis. I know the Anderson's discussed in a blog a while ago. I was wondering, for those who may use video for self-analysis of technique, do you have any favorite youtube/vimeo videos of your climbing heroes that you watch for comparison? If so, post up some links! For example: Ice Knife
(Ideally, I would be looking for more vertical, roped routes. But the video above is nice in that you can check out 2 pro climbers at once) As a bonus, anyone happen to have any footage of hard, classic trad routes in the Northeast? Thanks and happy belated new year!
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Post by korduroy on Jan 3, 2017 10:39:36 GMT -7
Dave Graham for technique. Man is master. Could barely do chin ups, but technique his way into legend status
You could look up pretty much any Pete Kamitses video. He's always doing NE's hardest trad routes. You might be able to find some old Tim Kemple ones as well. Theres a Matt McCormick one in the dacks on Vimeo. Most NE hard tradsters don't really film their FAs and repeats. Pete only does out of sponsorship obligations and to redocument old forgotten aid lines. That good ol' New England old school mentality.
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Post by ehowell on Jan 6, 2017 9:17:46 GMT -7
What are you guys using for a camera? I've got a sweet tripod made for an Iphone, but as with everything else on an Iphone, space is limited. Filming routes is pretty much out of the question, but I've used it in the gym and outside for bouldering sessions. I'd love to start filming more, but I don't want to go out and buy an expensive camera.
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Post by MarkAnderson on Jan 6, 2017 10:29:48 GMT -7
I use a Canon PowerShot SX260 HS. I use it because it's about the size of a deck of cards. I've been through a number of Canon point and shoot cameras, they're all about the same as far as video recording. I picked this particular model because it has a 20x optical zoom (which is NOT particularly useful for shooting video of routes, but its nice for scoping out new crags from a distance). It will record about 15 minutes at 1080, about 30 minutes at 720 (which is what I use 95% of the time for shooting route beta), and about an hour at 480. That assumes you have a sufficiently large memory card and the battery doesn't die.
The limiting factor on point and shoots is the lens quality. Regardless of pixels and all that crap, it's just not the same quality image that you would get from a DLSR or similar camera. But the cost, weight and size of a point and shoot are much better, and they're good enough for tripod butt shots. Plus you will occasionally need to leave your camera in a precarious position (like on the very edge of the Interstellar ledge), and do you really want to do that with a $1000 camera?
Now that I've written all this, I realize you have used my camera, haha.
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Post by ehowell on Jan 6, 2017 10:36:37 GMT -7
Now that I've written all this, I realize you have used my camera, haha. I've seen it in action, but never handled it! I'll look into that. I'm against Go-Pros on principle, but I could see them being useful in this application. But maybe yours is cheaper. I should look.
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Post by korduroy on Jan 6, 2017 11:08:47 GMT -7
cellphone / gopro combo for close bouldering.
SoloShot for everything else. Especially helpful for surfing. The only thing the Soloshot doesn't work for is nude ascents at the Gunks (no place to store the tracking chip)
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Post by MarkAnderson on Jan 6, 2017 12:31:39 GMT -7
I always dreamed of having a camera like this, but I don't think I'll convince Kate that its worth the cost.
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Post by korduroy on Jan 6, 2017 13:26:11 GMT -7
I always dreamed of having a camera like this, but I don't think I'll convince Kate that its worth the cost. I hear you. I only have one because a friend of mine wound up working for them. Had the 2, and now I have the 3 in both 25x and 65 (beta version).
I would say, if you can find a 2 for cheap, its worth it.
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Post by tetrault on Apr 16, 2017 3:50:49 GMT -7
Please feel free to comment, compare and provide constructive criticism! BH Side-by-side Split
Each climber took ~3 working TR burns just prior, including figuring out gear and piton clipping stances. Note: The "red" climber's footage was adjusted during gear placements or rests in order better line up the more difficult sections of climbing.
Also note the red climber clearly taking advantage of the "clothing removal to increase strength-to-weight-ratio tactic" Thanks, and happy chocolate egg laying rabbit day!
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Post by tetrault on Apr 18, 2017 13:46:34 GMT -7
I took a crack at analyzing some of the moves; see link below. I don't know if what I am thinking is correct/useful. Differing opinions and more discussion certainly welcome. Moves lower on the route are only snapshots at move completion, while the 2 high crux moves have snapshots at move intiation and completion. BH Comments
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Post by MarkAnderson on Apr 18, 2017 16:21:27 GMT -7
Interesting. Musta been a lot of work putting that together, thanks for sharing.
Looking at the upper pics, I wonder if the red climber has better hip turnout flexibility. He seems to be able to keep his hips closer to the wall. It also seems like generally the blue climber's form deteriorates towards the top, whereas the red climber is consistent (if not improving).
PS, I can't get the video to play, probably an issue with my computer.
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Post by tetrault on Apr 18, 2017 17:05:06 GMT -7
You are probably correct about hip flexibility. Thanks for the response.
Not sure about the video. I am watching it on a mac; it is a .mp4 and plays in Quicktime. Would help/fix something if I knew more.
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Post by MarkAnderson on Apr 19, 2017 8:26:32 GMT -7
I think it has to do with firewalls and Google Drive (this is a work computer). I could probably watch it if I downloaded it.
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Post by aikibujin on Apr 19, 2017 12:58:08 GMT -7
I haven't jumped in on this because I don't think I have the experience and knowledge to analyze climbing technique from video. The complexity of movement, physical characteristic of a climber, and lack of info on hold size, shape, angle, etc. makes it basically impossible for me. So I can only make some general comments. The split video is really cool to watch and obviously took a lot of work to put together. But unless the two climbers have exactly the same body type, I think it's hard to make a direct comparison between their technique. For example, right away I noticed the blue climber has a longer reach than the red. After I realized that, every time I see a difference in the movement between the climbers, the first question that pops into my mind was, "is that because the blue climber can simply reach further?" This split video technique may be more useful for analyzing the same climber doing the route using different sequences. I also noticed that blue climber tend to have his hip further away from the wall than the red climber. But it could be that red climber is more flexible than blue, or it's even possible that the blue climber is feeling more comfortable. I know when I'm pulling down on small holds, I tend to paste myself on the wall because I feel like if I lean out I'll fall off. But if I'm moving on jugs, then I'm much more comfortable leaning back on straight arms so I can look at my footholds better. In this video I think the difference is flexibility, but I just wanted to raise another possibility.
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Post by tetrault on Apr 19, 2017 13:59:29 GMT -7
Thanks for the response, Aikibujin. I had been waiting. I was wondering if I should try to bribe you with some ice cream I also think you have more knowledge and insight than you are giving yourself credit for. I agree that it seems difficult to come up with useful analysis from video alone. I guess in this case, any analysis is somewhat moot anyway as both climbers sent. As you mention, video analysis could potentially be much more powerful to compare intricate body position differences between the same climber sticking or not sticking a certain move/sequence. But, sort of going along with the conversation in your "What is good technique" thread, I am still hoping there is more that can be learned or gained out of watching video. What would be needed for more in-depth analysis? Is it more experience and knowledge? How can one gain this knowledge? Or would real conclusions only be drawn if we had "an instrumented wall (measuring the load applied to each hold)" as Mark mentioned in the "good technique" thread? Even that may only tell us that a climber applied less load to their forearms, but not necessarily HOW the climber managed to do so.
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