Jefferson Curls

[Lundy]

Anyone have any experience with Jefferson Curls for back strengthening?  I've been deadlifting and using MAT to pretty good success (for a previously incapacitating chronic pain), but I'm always looking for more ideas on how to get better.

More broadly, this (three-plus hour) podcast about strength training for gymnastics is super interesting (so far):

fourhourworkweek.com/2016/05/09/the-secrets-of-gymnastic-strength-training/

It seems like training for gymnastics would be quite similar to training for climbing, particularly in that you're trying to balance strength and power development with continuous improvement in very refined motor skills, while also attaining high levels of flexibility.

Thoughts always welcome.

[Chris W]

OUCH OUCH OUCH OUCH OUCH!!!!!

Just googled a video of Jefferson Curls and I can already feel my spine screaming in agony! The entire motion seems work contrary to everything I know about physiology and general back health.

Haven't listened to the podcast.

I have had major issues with chronic back pain. Fixing it depends on what is causing it. For me, it has to do with some muscle tightness and a bit of a hip issue that externally rotates my left leg. I keep myself out of trouble by doing five particular stretches, held for one minute each, at least once per day. This usually keeps me moving and training pain free.

I have found that a lot of back issues for a lot of folks come from a weak ass. All too often, the lower back tries to do the work that was meant for the glutes, and the results tend to be painful. Some folks are told "lift with your legs". I tell folks to "lift with your butt". Instead of bending your spine, hinge at the hips and knees and straighten up and/or lift by squeezing your glutes.

[Lundy]

Hey Chris,
That was my impression exactly, which is why I came to the forum to ask if anyone has experience with them. I'm doing MAT which is helping me find those areas where I'm weak at the end of the range of motion that might be causing some back pain, and I dead lift (with the neutral back) in order to strengthen the whole posterior chain, including the glutes... This gets me to 85-90%, but I was curious if folks had experience with this. The way it was framed in the podcast is that it's great to be strong with a neutral back, but in the context of athletic movement, your back often needs to be bent or arched, or have the ability to "snap" between the two, and so you need to ensure that it (a) has that mobility, and (b) can function like the joint that it is and provide strength through the range of motion. It make sense to me in a purely theoretical sense, but I'm hesitant to start trying without hearing from folks who've done it before, as like you, it goes against everything I've ever been taught!

E

[wellhung]

I've become an expert on the Jefferson Curl from a 2 minute internet search. Not recommended to be done as a heavy weight exercise, where you pack on weight until failure. Its more about range of motion. Start with somewhere between 5-20 lbs, and don't increase until the weight feels really really easy. Or so the internet says. Haven't listened to the podcast though.

[Chris W]

Lundy, I believe I now understand where you're coming from. I used to try to strengthen my body (back, shoulders, elbows) through their full range of motion with the thoughts you mentioned, make it strong in case I need to use it that way. What I've discovered though is that that particular approach has actually done some long term damage and caused more harm than good. My AC joints in both shoulders, for example, are wrecked. What's really sad is that I've only come to this realization in the last two years, and some of the damage to my joints is irreversible.

For my back, I've found that keeping my muscles flexible throughout their rang of motion has helped quite a bit with pain. I've also noticed that, once I started consciously changing my lifting mechanics, there were actually very few, if any, situations where I needed to apply strength or power from my back in a flexed forward spine position. Keeping my LOW back primarily neutral and shifting motion and power through my hips not only helped with back pain but improved my general "athletic" movement. I have felt that training with proper mechanics was more than adequate to prepare me for the few cases where I had to use my back in a more awkward setting (primarily lifting human beings in an emergency setting).

Does that make sense? I hope that addresses some of your thoughts.

[yang]

I started doing J curls several weeks ago, about twice a week. It is not only just a great back strengthen exercise if done correctly with great form, but also great for stretching the whole spine and the so call "pike" position in gymnastics. Check out the link: www.gymnasticbodies.com/forum/topic/21715-question-about-jefferson-curls/#comment-194394. Tons of good stuff.